On a stroke shot, how much follow through?
- Thread starter BradE
- Start date
BradE said:
first....
As much follow thru that you think you need to execute the shot........
The truth is, the cue tip only contacts the cue ball for a fraction of a second.
Do you really think what your cue does after that contact, is going to affect how the cue ball is rolling, after you strike the ball?
In golf, does your follow thru affect the golf ball while it is in flight?
I'm not trying to sound like an azz....because I used to think the same way....until I got a lesson from Scott Lee.
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The follow through is different for everyone because we are all different; i.e. height, body types, arm length, etc.
What ever is comfortable to you is the key.
The complete "stroke" for me is when I have closed my arm at the elbow as far as I can; i.e. when I bend my elbow, the meat on my forearm is touching the meat on the upper part of my arm. This should be my "End Position" for every shot, no matter how soft or hard I hit the cueball.
Scott Lee or RandyG could probably answer it better than I could.
Hope this helps.
What ever is comfortable to you is the key.
The complete "stroke" for me is when I have closed my arm at the elbow as far as I can; i.e. when I bend my elbow, the meat on my forearm is touching the meat on the upper part of my arm. This should be my "End Position" for every shot, no matter how soft or hard I hit the cueball.
Scott Lee or RandyG could probably answer it better than I could.
Hope this helps.
okinawa77 said:
I'm sorry but you are sadly mistaken. Regardless of how long the tip is in contact with the cueball, a good follow through is imperative. When you shorten your follow through you are essentially decelerating the cue prior to contact with the cue ball, which results in a great loss of energy. A good follow through ensures that the your cue is still accerlating and is of utmost importance. So yes, what your cue does after the contact is going to effect how the cue ball is rolling
Same theory applies to golf as well. Have you ever seen a golfer swing full speed then stop his follow through right after contact with the ball is made?
I too got lessons from Scott Lee a while back and while the contact time is marginal, what you do with your cue to get to the contact point and after the contact point is the most important.
For the original poster: Here is what I would concentrate on for shots requiring a good stroke.
1.) First, study the table and determine your point of aim while standing. Try to visualize both the ball dropping and the cue ball path.
2.) Pick a point on the cloth about 4-5" from the cueball. This is the desired amount of follow through.
3.) This part is very important! When striking the cueball, make sure that the speed of your cue is accelerating through the cueball. I.e (Start your stroke with a medium speed and increase the speed as you swing).
If you try to swing your hardest from the moment your back swing is complete....it's impossible for you to accelerate through the cueball.
Start with short distance shots and work your way up!
Good luck!
-Phillip
Phillip, check your notes or PM Scott - okinawa77 is spot on. The CB is gone by the time the follow through part of the stroke takes place - it only cares about what's being done during contact. Positively accelerating through the CB is virtually a physical impossibility, but if it helps your body to execute properly by thinking this way, more power to you. The mind is a powerful thing.pip9ball said:I'm sorry but you are sadly mistaken. Regardless of how long the tip is in contact with the cueball, a good follow through is imperative. When you shorten your follow through you are essentially decelerating the cue prior to contact with the cue ball, which results in a great loss of energy. A good follow through ensures that the your cue is still accerlating and is of utmost importance. So yes, what your cue does after the contact is going to effect how the cue ball is rolling
Same theory applies to golf as well. Have you ever seen a golfer swing full speed then stop his follow through right after contact with the ball is made?
I too got lessons from Scott Lee a while back and while the contact time is marginal, what you do with your cue to get to the contact point and after the contact point is the most important.
For the original poster: Here is what I would concentrate on for shots requiring a good stroke.
1.) First, study the table and determine your point of aim while standing. Try to visualize both the ball dropping and the cue ball path.
2.) Pick a point on the cloth about 4-5" from the cueball. This is the desired amount of follow through.
3.) This part is very important! When striking the cueball, make sure that the speed of your cue is accelerating through the cueball. I.e (Start your stroke with a medium speed and increase the speed as you swing).
If you try to swing your hardest from the moment your back swing is complete....it's impossible for you to accelerate through the cueball.
Start with short distance shots and work your way up!
Good luck!
-Phillip
The only way the follow through could affect the CB is if concentrating on the follow through affects what's being done pre-contact, and/or during contact. In other words, if your focus goes from getting a proper stroke on the CB to getting a supposedly great follow through, you're probably changing other components of the stroke (which is what's happening in your golf example). That can be a good thing or a bad thing, YMMV.
To the OP, concentrate on the stroke and just let your grip hand go to its natural resting place. That's how far your follow through should be. If you haven't already done so, seek out instruction. It's far easier to demonstrate and describe the components of the stroke at the table than at the computer.
-djb
Your general message is correct: a good followthrough helps ensure a straight stroke, but doesn't do anything special by itself.
This is where you go off track. Like following through, the concept of "accelerating through the cueball" is another way of helping to create a straight, consistent stroke; it doesn't do anything special by itself.
pj
chgo
Great explanation.pip9ball said:...Regardless of how long the tip is in contact with the cueball, a good follow through is imperative. When you shorten your follow through you are essentially decelerating the cue prior to contact with the cue ball, which results in a great loss of energy. A good follow through ensures that the your cue is still accerlating and is of utmost importance. So yes, what your cue does after the contact is going to effect how the cue ball is rolling
Jim
Maybe I'm not doing a good job explaining myself, however I still believe that your follow through effects the shot.
For instance, I can hit a ball low and hard and stop my stroke as soon as the cue ball is touched (well, as fast as my brain can and I will get little to no draw. However I can hit the same shot with less firmness and a clean follow through and draw 1 to 1.5 table length.
Now I don't think you need to drop your shoulder and move your entire body....I agree with Scott and Randy...follow through is the result of a good stroke.
I still whole heartily believe that accelerating through the cue ball is what makes the difference. Until somebody can prove me otherwise this is what works for me
-Phillip
For instance, I can hit a ball low and hard and stop my stroke as soon as the cue ball is touched (well, as fast as my brain can
and I will get little to no draw. However I can hit the same shot with less firmness and a clean follow through and draw 1 to 1.5 table length.Now I don't think you need to drop your shoulder and move your entire body....I agree with Scott and Randy...follow through is the result of a good stroke.
I still whole heartily believe that accelerating through the cue ball is what makes the difference. Until somebody can prove me otherwise this is what works for me
-Phillip
Interesting
Can you prove this? I dont want to start an argument, I am seriously interested in this theory.
Hmmm...accelerating through the cueball will make the cue ball slide further before it starts to backspin. Don't you want the cueball sliding all the way to the object ball?
I wish I could prove this, however I can't. All I know is that my game has jumped by a few balls since I started focusing on this. I guess each person has their own methods and as long as it works, eh?
-Phillip
Patrick Johnson said:
Can you prove this? I dont want to start an argument, I am seriously interested in this theory.
Patrick Johnson said:
Hmmm...accelerating through the cueball will make the cue ball slide further before it starts to backspin. Don't you want the cueball sliding all the way to the object ball?
I wish I could prove this, however I can't. All I know is that my game has jumped by a few balls since I started focusing on this. I guess each person has their own methods and as long as it works, eh?
-Phillip
I read everyones posts and having a physics degree, can explain this fairly easy.
The reason that follow-thru is important to a shot is because of the speed the shot needs on contact. If you didn't follow-thru your speed at contact would be decreasing at a fast rate which would alter your shot.
The idea is that you measure each shot with the speed that you want to hit the cue ball with. And then the follow-through distance is the length it takes to slow the cue down after contact.
If you are hitting a shot as hard as possible, like the break shot, you want a long distance for follow-thru. If you are shooting a soft shot, your follow-thru will be minimal and you shouldn't worry about making sure you go 5" or other set number. That will screw up your speed on the shot.
The reason that follow-thru is important to a shot is because of the speed the shot needs on contact. If you didn't follow-thru your speed at contact would be decreasing at a fast rate which would alter your shot.
The idea is that you measure each shot with the speed that you want to hit the cue ball with. And then the follow-through distance is the length it takes to slow the cue down after contact.
If you are hitting a shot as hard as possible, like the break shot, you want a long distance for follow-thru. If you are shooting a soft shot, your follow-thru will be minimal and you shouldn't worry about making sure you go 5" or other set number. That will screw up your speed on the shot.
I think it can be easily proved. All it takes is a way to stop your hand and stick suddenly without bruising something and the will to do it. Maybe as simple as a cushion on the edge of the table to bump your hand against.
If you could get as much cue ball action this way as with a full followthrough I think that would also answer both questions: whether a full followthrough or "accelerating through" the cue ball add anything physical to the tip/ball impact.
pj
chgo
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I don't think there's much of a question if looked at from physics point of view. What people have a problem with is the term "accelerating through", since the cue will inevitably decelerate once impact begins. As such, "accelerating through" is a misnomer (or metaphor) for continuing to apply positive force right up to impact.pip9ball said:...I still whole heartily believe that accelerating through the cue ball is what makes the difference. Until somebody can prove me otherwise this is what works for me
Jim
Jal said:
Lets call the point right before contact, point a and the point right after contact point b.
m = mass of the cue ball...lets assume its 5
Fa = 5
Fb = 10
aa = Fa/m = 5/5 = 1
ab = Fb/m = 10/5 = 2
If you apply a greater force when contact is made then it is possible to accelerate through the ball. I'm a computer engineer so it's been a long time since Physics...but I think this is valid.
-Phillip
The problem is that at point b, you can't have doubled your force. You're trying to make a proof by assigning a value to Fb that we're saying isn't happening.pip9ball said:
At impact, most good strokes are at nearly constant speed. In other words, zero acceleration.
Fred <~~~ another "accelerating through" thread?
