One guy uses the magic rack - Everyone else the wooden rack

ChicagoRJ

EEEEEXCELLENT ;)
Gold Member
Silver Member
Mebbe.

My thoughts on it are this. The guys runs out good. So do I.

He also does not play all that well post break when he does not get an open shot on the 1 with moderately easy position. He doesn't have a great break without the magic rack. Mine is much better.

Therefore....

By being forced to use the magic rack, my better break is negated, because the wing ball goes 90% of the time. He'll literally get out off the break almost every time.

This also negates any post-break play where decision making is involved.

No offense, but anyone who doesn't see problems with the magic rack negating skill either doesn't play good enough players, or aren't good enough themselves for it to make a difference.. :-D

Short Bus Russ

No worries Russ, you are correct. He should NOT have been allowed to use it. End of story. You could not have pulled out a measles cue ball and used, they would have freaked.

But you know you should have just accepted it and knocked him into the losers bracket. It should not have affected your game as much as it did. You know better ;)
 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
No worries Russ, you are correct. He should NOT have been allowed to use it. End of story. You could not have pulled out a measles cue ball and used, they would have freaked.

But you know you should have just accepted it and knocked him into the losers bracket. It should not have affected your game as much as it did. You know better ;)

I agree completely.

Another point for discussion is the idea that the guy got to use the rack against the better players he played, negating post break play, where I had to fight it out with killers if the 1 ball didn't lay over a pocket..

:grin:

Short Bus Russ
 

2strong4u

Banned
Maybe I just get too twisted about nothing.. I'd like your opinions...

I went to a handicapped 9 ball tournament this weekend, fairly small, only about 23 people. All matches in the tournament were played on 7 foot Diamonds, with the wooden rack, except for one guy, (A fairly decent player) who actually brought a magic rack with him to the tournament.

It came down to he and I playing for the hot seat, and right before we play, he mentions that he brought a magic rack, and I immediately say, "Absolutely not, unless I am forced to play with it. I believe the magic rack equalizes play between nonequal players.."

He asks that we allow the tournament director to decide, and of course the director rules that based on "what they do at national tournaments", that he is allowed to use the magic rack, but must allow me to use it if I wish..

I ended up having little to no interest in the match after that, and two-stroked everything, and ended up losing. I tried a bit harder in the loser's bracket, because I was actually looking forward to the double dip attempt, but ended up coming up short in the match for 2nd/3rd, losing hill-hill.

Looking back, the best thing I could have done was to try to beat the guy in the winner's bracket, and let my stick talk for me. I guess it was just really irritating, because I think the guy can't beat me without the magic rack, as he would need to really hit the rack on the break and accept a more random outcome off the break.

Should I have just outright refused to play with the magic rack, as he is the only guy who brought one, and then just accepted the forfeit necessity as a means of concientious objection?

What do you think of the tournament director's decision?

All in all, I feel that I hve exhibited a lot of self control not to post this same post on Facebook, as a ton of people on my friend's list will know who the guy is. I didn't want it to sound like sour grapes, though, and I am looking forward to getting back in stroke enough to where this sort of tactic won't even matter...


Short Bus Russ
TD is a wimp.
Basically if you don't allow him to use it then he can't. Unless the tournament rules permit it. His break is wired. I see this no differently then a guy asking if he can't rack his own. I will always politely decline unless he's a C player...then it just doesn't matter.
 

2strong4u

Banned
What is your problem with the magic rack?
If you both use the same rack, there is no advantages either way...
The magic rack ensures that the balls are touching, how is that a bad thing?

If one player practices with the MR and the other doesn't, it makes a big difference. If the tournament doesn't specify magic rack then it can only be used if your opponents permit it.
 

nateobot

Undercover FBI Agent
Silver Member
Both players have to agree to use the magic rack, if another rack is provided for use. The tournament director did not have any say in allowing the player to use it if both players did not agree to it.

I've played in many tournaments and the rule was always "if you have a magic rack, you can use it if BOTH players agree to it". Since one of them did not want to use it, it should have been put away.

That is how the ones I've played in have worked as well.
 

beetle

Do I bug you?
Silver Member
Mebbe.

He also does not play all that well post break when he does not get an open shot on the 1 with moderately easy position. He doesn't have a great break without the magic rack. Mine is much better.

Short Bus Russ

So, what you're saying is that you were equal in skill with the magic rack? Evidently you made at least one more error than your opponent using the magic rack, therefore, it didn't quite equalize things. The only conclusion is that you played worse than your opponent.
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Gold Member
Silver Member
The tournament director is correct. What if jump cues were allowed and he was the only one that brought one, would you complain then ( you wouldn't even have the option to use his)?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think the tournament director made a bad decision.

The jump cue/magic rack is talking apples and oranges.

I would not play in a tournament where a personal rack could be used
over the objection of the opponent.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The tournament director is exactly that, the tournament director. What he says goes. Unless he specifically stated the rules were only use the table racks, then he can decide whatever he wants.

Jaden

That is true, but in my opinion it was the wrong decision to make going by precedent in other tournaments and in the sense of being fair to the other players.

What if someone wanted to use a different cueball? That is a lot closer in similarity than using a jump cue or a bridge head or something. For those that agreed with the TD in this case, if one player wanted to use a certain cueball in the game because he played better with it or did not think the other cueball was good, would it be OK for the TD to over-rule the second player if that player did not want to use the cueball that was brought to the table?

It's similar to a ref making a bad call on a hit, it happens but it's not the right thing. What if the ref had no idea what a "good" hit was, expecially on a push or double hit shot and called the hit "good" when the shot was actually a foul? They are the ref but still in error.

I think the posts that side with the TD are from those that have not played in tournaments were people wanted to use their own rack, where the opposite viewpoints like mine are actually from those that played in a tournament where the rule was clearly stated, both players have to agree to a certain rack being used or the default rack is used by both. Rules vary, but I think that is the right call when it comes to the rack.
 
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Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mebbe.

My thoughts on it are this. The guys runs out good. So do I.

He also does not play all that well post break when he does not get an open shot on the 1 with moderately easy position. He doesn't have a great break without the magic rack. Mine is much better.

Therefore....

By being forced to use the magic rack, my better break is negated, because the wing ball goes 90% of the time. He'll literally get out off the break almost every time.

This also negates any post-break play where decision making is involved.

No offense, but anyone who doesn't see problems with the magic rack negating skill either doesn't play good enough players, or aren't good enough themselves for it to make a difference.. :-D

Short Bus Russ

Russ, not speaking necessarily of you on this, but there are two sides to that coin. I know of several players around here that don't like the magic rack because it does equal out things. They find it much harder if not impossible to put a bad rack on you.
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe I just get too twisted about nothing.. I'd like your opinions...

I went to a handicapped 9 ball tournament this weekend, fairly small, only about 23 people. All matches in the tournament were played on 7 foot Diamonds, with the wooden rack, except for one guy, (A fairly decent player) who actually brought a magic rack with him to the tournament.

It came down to he and I playing for the hot seat, and right before we play, he mentions that he brought a magic rack, and I immediately say, "Absolutely not, unless I am forced to play with it. I believe the magic rack equalizes play between nonequal players.."

He asks that we allow the tournament director to decide, and of course the director rules that based on "what they do at national tournaments", that he is allowed to use the magic rack, but must allow me to use it if I wish..

I ended up having little to no interest in the match after that, and two-stroked everything, and ended up losing. I tried a bit harder in the loser's bracket, because I was actually looking forward to the double dip attempt, but ended up coming up short in the match for 2nd/3rd, losing hill-hill.

Looking back, the best thing I could have done was to try to beat the guy in the winner's bracket, and let my stick talk for me. I guess it was just really irritating, because I think the guy can't beat me without the magic rack, as he would need to really hit the rack on the break and accept a more random outcome off the break.

Should I have just outright refused to play with the magic rack, as he is the only guy who brought one, and then just accepted the forfeit necessity as a means of concientious objection?

What do you think of the tournament director's decision?

All in all, I feel that I hve exhibited a lot of self control not to post this same post on Facebook, as a ton of people on my friend's list will know who the guy is. I didn't want it to sound like sour grapes, though, and I am looking forward to getting back in stroke enough to where this sort of tactic won't even matter...


Short Bus Russ

You might want to work on how easy it is to shark you right out of your game. ;)
 

haystj

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I really play quite a bit better than I let on.

Short Bus Russ

And this, in my opinion, is why pool will never rise from the state it is in now. Not trying to beat up or jump the thread on Mr. Bus,,, but I really think this prevalent mentality keeps pool down.

I can't think of any other sport where this is the case.

Just my opinion, but I think people should be up front with their game.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And this, in my opinion, is why pool will never rise from the state it is in now. Not trying to beat up or jump the thread on Mr. Bus,,, but I really think this prevalent mentality keeps pool down.

I can't think of any other sport where this is the case.

Just my opinion, but I think people should be up front with their game.

I think he just does it for the forums, I've seen other posts where his true game came out.

If I wanted to be known as the one eyed pirate guy who could not make 2 balls in a row on the forums, that's is the persona I'd use, but may not be how I act or play in the real world. In the real world I'm a one eyed pirate who can make 3 balls.
 

ChicagoRJ

EEEEEXCELLENT ;)
Gold Member
Silver Member
And this, in my opinion, is why pool will never rise from the state it is in now. Not trying to beat up or jump the thread on Mr. Bus,,, but I really think this prevalent mentality keeps pool down.

I can't think of any other sport where this is the case.

Just my opinion, but I think people should be up front with their game.

I don't think that is what Russ meant at all. Chill dude.
 

thintowin

thin2win
Silver Member
i guess you are right but is does that what you really wanted to win. i would have really wanted to win the tourney. the guy with the magic rack accomplished exactly what he wanted: to get in the other players' heads.

pnce the TD makes his ruling then get to playing pool and winning. personally if it was me, i wouldn't have said anything because he got all the way to the hot seat. did you really think you would win the argument no matter how right or wrong you are?

you shot yourself in the foot with your own gun and you knew it was loaded. you sound like you have a good feel for the game and you definitely are passionate about the game, but you need to channel your energy to winning instead of winning arguments.

but who am i to say ... just my nickel's worth.

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lencho1785

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
C'mon Russ magic rack works both ways and it wasn't like you were close to win it was a 6-0
 

Dockter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can't remember what post it was or how it came up but I think the C player thing came from someone calling him a C player but I may be mistaken. Either way, he has posted video's of him shooting and he uses C player in jest. I don't think he is running around trying to enter the C divison in tournaments although the guy I ran into at a MPA tournament this weekend played about his level and ran my ass over in C division lol.
 

tatcat2000

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If the TD was referring to BCAPL Nationals, he was exactly correct. Since it's introduction, the Magic Ball Rack has been accepted equipment at BCAPL Nationals and most CSI events, and a player may not be denied use of it. The only conditions are that its use MUST be announced before the match starts and the opponent must also be allowed to use it.

Buddy
 
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