One more way to Play 9Ball

[BeiberLvr]

There have been numerous threads on the subject of the old school push out rules, and how they're so much better than one foul.

While that's certainly true, I have come up with a way to play that trumps both games. It's based on a suggestion I made in another thread, and that will eliminate a majority of luck as 2F9B does, but keep some of the elements of one foul.

It's really simple. Play is just like one foul, except players must call their safes. If a safety is not called, and a ball is not made. The incoming player has the option to push out. Then the only response can be to shoot or pass it back. So no pushing in the middle of a run, which is my only gripe with 2F9B rules.

Other rules include

- 9 on break gets spotted
- 9 must be called (all other balls are slop counts)


Benefits

- Safeties can be played.
- The majority of rolls at the top level are when a player misses and hooks his opponent. These rules don't punish the incoming player when that happens.

 

[liakos]

Not sure about what rules this version would be called but here goes! A few months back, I was at a room and this guy wanted to play 9-ball, "his way" the rules, break, if you have an open shot, play it! If you don't, your allowed to push! After that, its call ball and pocket! But, if you miss, opponent has BIH! Besides the push after the break, your only allowed to play 1 safe per game! So, make sure you get position and make sure you pocket the ball! The 1 safe per game is what made this game interesting! Needless to say, I enjoyed it very much! Concentration a must!

 

[rookiepsu]

Not sure about what rules this version would be called but here goes! A few months back, I was at a room and this guy wanted to play 9-ball, "his way" the rules, break, if you have an open shot, play it! If you don't, your allowed to push! After that, its call ball and pocket! But, if you miss, opponent has BIH! Besides the push after the break, your only allowed to play 1 safe per game! So, make sure you get position and make sure you pocket the ball! The 1 safe per game is what made this game interesting! Needless to say, I enjoyed it very much! Concentration a must!

That is a massive amount of exclamation points in one paragraph. While reading it, I couldn't help but raise my eyebrows in excitement at the end of every sentence and now my forehead is sore :frown:

 

[liakos]

That is a massive amount of exclamation points in one paragraph. While reading it, I couldn't help but raise my eyebrows in excitement at the end of every sentence and now my forehead is sore :frown:

Sorry about that ill send some motrin xtra strength your way!

 

[liakos]

It's only 10!

 

[HawaiianEye]

Play is just like one foul, except players must call their safes.

Do they have to call EXACTLY how their safe will end up?

For example there are 2 balls very close together and I am trying to hide the cue ball behind them.

Do I have to say, "I'm going to put the cue ball behind those balls? or I'm going to put the cue ball behind the (you pick which ball of the 2). If it goes behind the other, is it a foul? How about what path the cue ball travels to get into that spot? Do I have to say 3 rails and then if I go 2 rails and get the same leave it is a foul?

In 2F9B there is NO SUCH THING as a "SAFE". The PUSH is your SAFE...and when your opponent "calls your bluff" and takes the shot you just HOPE he isn't as SMART as you in figuring out the BEST shot for what you left him.

 

[Pushout]

This has been discussed every which way possible before now. Calling safe will not fly with those who prefer to miss and leave you safe with no option but to kick or jump. Also known as the "two-way shot". Too many people depend on luck, push-out 9 ball does away with the luck.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Do they have to call EXACTLY how their safe will end up?

For example there are 2 balls very close together and I am trying to hide the cue ball behind them.

Do I have to say, "I'm going to put the cue ball behind those balls? or I'm going to put the cue ball behind the (you pick which ball of the 2). If it goes behind the other, is it a foul? How about what path the cue ball travels to get into that spot? Do I have to say 3 rails and then if I go 2 rails and get the same leave it is a foul?

In 2F9B there is NO SUCH THING as a "SAFE". The PUSH is your SAFE...and when your opponent "calls your bluff" and takes the shot you just HOPE he isn't as SMART as you in figuring out the BEST shot for what you left him.

No they don't have to call how the safe will end up.

Like I said, the biggest problem with 2F9B is that you can push at anytime. That means if I'm running out, and then hook myself on the 7, I don't have to kick. I can just be a pushy (pun intended) and roll out. As far as I know, situations like that (getting out of line) are the ONLY reason one would ever push during the middle of a run.

Also, in 2F9B, you never have to kick or jump. Sorry, I don't care what you or CJ says, both are skill shots. Maybe not always 100%, but enough none the less.

 

[BeiberLvr]

This has been discussed every which way possible before now. Calling safe will not fly with those who prefer to miss and leave you safe with no option but to kick or jump. Also known as the "two-way shot". Too many people depend on luck, push-out 9 ball does away with the luck.

The ones dependent upon luck are not the top level players. That's who these rules are geared for. Sure, these rules wouldn't be great for tournaments that have a lot of weaker players in them.

The two-way shot is highly overrated. There's no two-way shot in 10ball, and plenty of people play that.

 

[HawaiianEye]

As far as I know, situations like that (getting out of line) are the ONLY reason one would ever push during the middle of a run.
.

It ISN'T the "far as I know" that gets you beat!

It''s the "WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW" that gets you beat by the better player who KNOWS and KNOWS what YOU know.

There are PLENTY of times you may push...even if you are PERFECTLY in line. I've seen PLENTY of pushes "put out as testers" in an attempt to gauge the opponent's speed. They were WILLING to lose a couple of rounds to WIN the fight in the END. The ONLY people I ever played with who DIDN'T prefer 2F9B were the people who CONTINUALLY lost. They were the SAME people who would have lost playing one-foul, but they lost maybe a little less frequently in one-foul because of the greater luck factor involved.

The purpose of the PUSH is to give the SHOOTER the "opportunity" to stay at the table if they make the PROPER decision. If they screw up the PUSH, then they are just selling out if their opponent is able to see the "move" and do it themselves.

It becomes a game of ."throwing out the gauntlet"...a challenge, if you will.

 

[itsfroze]

To me it doesn't sound like beiber has ever played 2F9B, from things you say, such as "(getting out of line) are the ONLY reason one would ever push during the middle of a run".

I think if you played this game with someone who's played it a lot, you would start to like the game.

 

[BeiberLvr]

To me it doesn't sound like beiber has ever played 2F9B, from things you say, such as "(getting out of line) are the ONLY reason one would ever push during the middle of a run".

I have played it, and love it.

I just think it's stupid to push when you are in line to run out, just to gauge the other guy's speed.

Plenty of better ways to do that without the possible risk of losing that game and subsequent games.

 

[HawaiianEye]

I have played it, and love it.

I just think it's stupid to push when you are in line to run out, just to gauge the other guy's speed.

Plenty of better ways to do that without the possible risk of losing that game and subsequent games.

I have just ONE basic question for all the naysayers of 2F9B.

Why is it that probably 90% of today's LIVING LEGEND players (CJ, Earl, Buddy, Keith, etc.) say it is the BEST way to play, yet other LESSER players say it is "stupid".

My THEORY on that is "the naysayers never could win at the game or think they aren't bright enough to beat a TOP player at it".

And if there ISN'T a "possible risk of losing that game and subsequent games", THEN YOU HAVE A LOCK...IT ISN'T GAMBLING if NO RISK is involved.

 

[Horsetrader]

9 ball is a gambling game, one of the fastest played. A certain element of LUCK has to be involved, so for me personally, I don't care for your ideals on how to change the game. Although I do understand the thought behind it.

 

[Horsetrader]

Push out is old school. Personally for me being a one pocket player, I love it. In the old days a 9 ball game can last MUCH longer than "ball in hand rule".

 

[BeiberLvr]

I have just ONE basic question for all the naysayers of 2F9B.

Why is it that probably 90% of today's LIVING LEGEND players (CJ, Earl, Buddy, Keith, etc.) say it is the BEST way to play, yet other LESSER players say it is "stupid".

My THEORY on that is "the naysayers never could win at the game or think they aren't bright enough to beat a TOP player at it".

And if there ISN'T a "possible risk of losing that game and subsequent games", THEN YOU HAVE A LOCK...IT ISN'T GAMBLING if NO RISK is involved.

I didn't say it was stupid. I said the idea of pushing when you have an out for the current rack is stupid. But let's get away from that for just a second, and get back to my original statement, since we seem to have gone off on a tangent.

My biggest problem with the rules of 2F9B is that it allows you to push at anytime. This means you can push out during a run if you hook yourself. Please explain to me how that's fair for the guy not at the table. Players should be punished for their mistakes, but not for their opponent's good luck. In a nutshell, that's what the rules I proposed do.

And once again, I don't hate 2F9B, I just don't think it's as perfect as you think it is. Players should be allowed to push anytime it's their first shot at the table (per inning/not rack), and not be allowed to push afterwards.

 

[itsfroze]

Cancelled this post

 

[HawaiianEye]

My biggest problem with the rules of 2F9B is that it allows you to push at anytime. This means you can push out during a run if you hook yourself. Please explain to me how that's fair for the guy not at the table. Players should be punished for their mistakes, but not for their opponent's good luck. In a nutshell, that's what the rules I proposed do.

NOTHING SHOULD BE FAIR FOR THE GUY SITTING DOWN!
FAIR SHOULD "ONLY" BE FAIR FOR THE PERSON AT THE TABLE.
WHEN THAT PERSON SITS DOWN THEN IT IS FAIR TO BE "FAIR" FOR THE NEW PERSON AT THE TABLE!

If I am AT THE TABLE, then WHATEVER I decide to do is FAIR. If I get out of line, am I NOT STILL THE PERSON HOLDING THE TABLE? I ONLY relinquish my turn at the table when I am done "shooting". Is there ANY rule that says I have to "sell out" just so my opponent, who happens to be sitting, gets a "good/fair" shot when he comes to the table? If I push to somewhere on the table other than the shot at hand, ISN'T it FAIR for the OPPONENT if they have the OPTION of shooting or PASSING IT BACK TO ME? He has the SAME options I do at that point...SHOOT OR DON'T. If you DON'T have the balls or KNOWLEDGE of how to shoot out of what I pushed to, it DOESN'T MEAN IT ISN'T FAIR.

The SHOOTER should ALWAYS be in the POSITION to decide their own DESTINY! The shooter DECIDES which and what shot to shoot. The guy SITTING DOWN doesn't have ANY say in the matter...and SHOULDN'T.

And FWIW, hustlers sometimes INTENTIONALLY got out of line in order to push to a shot that they KNEW you couldn't HANDLE, but THEY COULD...even if they made the shot look "lucky". That DISGUISED their true position-playing abilities until they had the game well in hand and then started showing their true speed.

 

[BeiberLvr]

NOTHING SHOULD BE FAIR FOR THE GUY SITTING DOWN! FAIR SHOULD "ONLY" BE FAIR FOR THE PERSON AT THE TABLE. WHEN THAT PERSON SITS DOWN THEN IT IS FAIR TO BE "FAIR" FOR THE NEW PERSON AT THE TABLE!

If I am AT THE TABLE, then WHATEVER I decide to do is FAIR. If I get out of line, am I NOT STILL THE PERSON HOLDING THE TABLE? I ONLY relinquish my turn at the table when I am done "shooting". Is there ANY rule that says I have to "sell out" just so my opponent, who happens to be sitting, gets a "good/fair" shot when he comes to the table?

The SHOOTER should ALWAYS be in the POSITION to decide their own DESTINY! The shooter DECIDES which and what shot to shoot. The guy SITTING DOWN doesn't have ANY say in the matter...and SHOULDN'T.

Jesus Christ, stop yelling.

So you don't agree that a player making the mistake of getting out of line or hooking themselves should be held accountable for said mistake?

If the answer to that question is, no. Then our conversation is over.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Cancelled this post

Why? I didn't see anything wrong with it, and I'll be more than happy to answer your questions. Hopefully I remembered the order they were in.

1. I'm 29

2. I haven't been playing 2F9B that long. But it doesn't take long to realize the negatives and positives, and there's definitely more positives. In fact, the only negative is the option of pushing out at any time.

3. Most of the times I've played have been with people I've taught the game to, but I have played a few older guys (in their 60s) that have much more experience with it than me.