One Pocket scratch on break rules?

M

MD1108

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
One Pocket break rules question - Utilizing the rules if, the breaker pockets a ball in their pocket on opening break, it's a re-rack and the game has technically not yet begun.
What if, breaker pockets a ball in their pocket on the opening break and also scratches(cue ball went in a pocket), is this also a re-rack with breaker keeping control since the game has not started?
Or, is this a foul, the ball pocketed spots, the breaker owes a ball(thus they are at -1), and control now passes to incoming player(non breaker), with cue ball in hand behind the head string.

I checked Derby City rules online, didn't see anything offering clarity. Also checked Onepocket.org, and if reading their guidelines correctly -
it's a foul, with the breaker owing a ball and the pocketed ball being spotted, and incoming player(non breaker), receiving cue ball in hand behind the head string.

Thanks for the help and wisdom.

Best to all
 
IMO since the pocketed ball voids the game, no other conditions apply.
As far as rules go deuces wild on Thursday after 4 am...
 
MD1108 said:
One Pocket break rules question - Utilizing the rules if, the breaker pockets a ball in their pocket on opening break, it's a re-rack and the game has technically not yet begun.
What if, breaker pockets a ball in their pocket on the opening break and also scratches(cue ball went in a pocket), is this also a re-rack with breaker keeping control since the game has not started?
Or, is this a foul, the ball pocketed spots, the breaker owes a ball(thus they are at -1), and control now passes to incoming player(non breaker), with cue ball in hand behind the head string.

I checked Derby City rules online, didn't see anything offering clarity. Also checked Onepocket.org, and if reading their guidelines correctly -
it's a foul, with the breaker owing a ball and the pocketed ball being spotted, and incoming player(non breaker), receiving cue ball in hand behind the head string.

Thanks for the help and wisdom.

Best to all
Click to expand...
Its re-rack and the breaker breaks again.
 
I recently played in a 1pocket tournament.

At the conclusion of the player's/rules meeting the break had not been addressed so I asked, "Ball on the break?"

And the TD said, and I quote, "We ain't playin' no p***y Derby City rules here. We're playin' big boy one pocket so you make a ball on the break you keep shooting."

Gotta love a no-nonsense TD, lol.

Lou Figueroa
 
Most of the times the rules say make a ball on the break it’s a re-rack
(regardless of what else happens … my words)
I used to feel like you did if he makes a ball and scratches you should play it as a foul
But the logic I’ve been explained is if the breaker doesn’t get the reward for making the ball then he doesn’t get the penalty for making the ball and scratches
The idea, if you won’t give him his cherry, you can’t make him eat the lemon
 
it also lessons the reason for an aggressive break. why change what was never broken for a few cry babies that lose to someone that gets a little lucky or has a good break.
 
Scratch on break i would say they owe a ball and the other shooter gets BIH behind the head string
 
It's not really clear in the official rules at onepocket.org, but there has been a bunch of discussion about it there.

My feeling is that even if you are playing re-rack, a scratch is a scratch and regardless of whether you made a ball or not, you should be penalized for it.
Any ball made on a scratch comes up and DOES NOT COUNT. Making a ball shouldn't be a get-out-of-jail-free card.
 
A ball RARELY goes IF the rack is frozen tight. Even corner balls that are barely off can make one go in.
 
King T said:
Its re-rack and the breaker breaks again.
Click to expand...
Maybe, maybe not.

Onepocket.org- It’s a foul. You owe one and opponent gets Q ball behind the line.

Buffalo’s 1P tournament-ReRack and break again.

Derby- not totally sure, correct me if I’m wrong.
Old rules- ReRack and break again.
New rules- It’s a foul, same as 1P.org

At least it’s not like 🎱 with a hundred different rules.
 
This situation happened at Derby a few years go. The balls were re-reacked and he broke again. Not sure if it has changed since then, but I like the rule.
 
IMO this is a very silly rule. If the goal is to prevent the breaker from running out(or scoring several etc) then why not just make the break 1 shot only and let the balls fall where they may. I'd even be fine with spotting the ball but rebreak is just dumb. More often than not when someone makes a ball on the break it's a really really poor break that sells out easy returns, clearances and banks. I think it's pretty phony to allow the breaker to go again off what was more often than not a bad shot to begin with. It's basically rewarding a bad shot in most cases.
 
jtompilot said:
Maybe, maybe not.

Onepocket.org- It’s a foul. You owe one and opponent gets Q ball behind the line.

Buffalo’s 1P tournament-ReRack and break again.

Derby- not totally sure, correct me if I’m wrong.
Old rules- ReRack and break again.
New rules- It’s a foul, same as 1P.org

At least it’s not like 🎱 with a hundred different rules.
Click to expand...
Onepocket.org has both options listed in the rule set (section 2.3). They call the foul with BIH to the opponent option the "traditional" rule, and the re-rack and break again option the "modern" rule.

Rules posted for Derby last year were re-rack and break again.

As others have mentioned, if you're playing under re-rack rules, then there's no penalty for the foul, because the game hasn't started yet. If you're playing under the "traditional" rule then the ball gets spotted, the person breaking owes a ball, and the opponent gets BIH (behind the headstring).
 
desert1pocket said:
Onepocket.org has both options listed in the rule set (section 2.3). They call the foul with BIH to the opponent option the "traditional" rule, and the re-rack and break again option the "modern" rule.

Rules posted for Derby last year were re-rack and break again.

As others have mentioned, if you're playing under re-rack rules, then there's no penalty for the foul, because the game hasn't started yet. If you're playing under the "traditional" rule then the ball gets spotted, the person breaking owes a ball, and the opponent gets BIH (behind the headstring).
Click to expand...
During Buffalo’s big tournament I was playing Peter from Germany, I made a ball on the break and scratched. Peter called foul, I said rerack. I sent Steve(1P.org) a message about it. I re-broke because that’s what was being used at Buffs tournament.

Steve finally saw my text and said it was a scratch and I owe one.

Moral of the story, decide before starting.
 
jtompilot said:
During Buffalo’s big tournament I was playing Peter from Germany, I made a ball on the break and scratched. Peter called foul, I said rerack. I sent Steve(1P.org) a message about it. I re-broke because that’s what was being used at Buffs tournament.

Steve finally saw my text and said it was a scratch and I owe one.

Moral of the story, decide before starting.
Click to expand...

If he's saying you owe a ball the next game that's a BS ruling.

Lou Figueroa
since when do you
carry-over scratches
from a previous rack
 
jtompilot said:
Maybe, maybe not.

Onepocket.org- It’s a foul. You owe one and opponent gets Q ball behind the line.

Buffalo’s 1P tournament-ReRack and break again.

Derby- not totally sure, correct me if I’m wrong.
Old rules- ReRack and break again.
New rules- It’s a foul, same as 1P.org

At least it’s not like 🎱 with a hundred different rules.
Click to expand...
Derby 2024, Gorst vs Filler. Gorst made a ball and scratched. Re-Rack
 
if they must mess with a standard rule that has been in effect since the game was invented.

then just say the break is your turn at the table but opponent shoots next. treated as any other turn at the table with respect to the rules.
 
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