Opinion needed regarding tuning up my Schon

jed1894

jed1894

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello all......looking for opinions from those who actually tried or experimented with tuning up their Schons. It's Christmas, so I got pool presents coming from the little wife. I decided to tune up my Schon with a different shaft, tip, etc. (maybe low deflection or something). I know I am probably wasting money, but I won't ever know unless I try and learn the hard way.

I am happy with the Schon cue and do not plan to switch. However, I've never been 100% happy with the hard hit of the tip. It's okay, but there has always been something with the shaft or tip that wasn't quite right with me. I can get the cue ball to work, but it requires a little more effort and I'm getting old and weak-eyed. I think it could be better. I like a firm hit, but it may be a tad too firm.

So, I tried the Triangle on a Schon shaft and it's better. That may be as good as it gets, but I think it could get better. I've tried a 12.75 Schon shaft with a Triangle and it effected the balance just a little. It also seemed (might be in head) a little less accurate for me. That may have been the answer too. I've heard a Joss shaft on a Schon butt is the ticket. I haven't experimented with that yet, but it looks like the taper is different. That's my next and cheapest experiment.

On a different approach, what about a LD shaft on the Schon. I'm not a big fan of LD shafts, but I understand things have changed within the last few years and some of the LD shafts are very firm. I don't want to get too far from the original feel of the cue. I know the Schon cue is designed to be a hard hitting cue. I've never tried a LD shaft on my Schon. I've tried on other cues (OB1 and 1st Gen Pred) and didn't like them too much. I know people have switch over to LD shafts on their Schons, but I also know there are people who have switched back.

I know someone will ask..... I'm not an expert, but probably a B+ player. I would not say that I'm good enough for a LD shaft to mess up my game. I mostly play with friends and we are usually intoxicated (just a little) when playing. I do not play in tournys anymore. I'm right a 50 now and been playing since 6 or 7. I have a pool table at home.

I know this topic has been asked before, but looking for new opinions on this issue. Thanks in advance. JED
 
My friend and teammate has about ten nice custom cues, some worth between 3-5k from top tier makers. He shoots with his twenty year old Schon. But, he did alter the cue himself. He recently took the original joint off, and put on a piloted, ivory joint. The cue, in my and pretty much everyone elses opinion, plays much better now. It hits very firm, but with good feedback, and it is easy to work whitey.

As far as LD shafts, I personally have never played with one that I preferred over a good, standard shaft. If you are thinking about changing the shaft, I would look into seeing if you could have a custom maker do it, and with the type of taper to give you the hit you like. I have a Kenny Koo shaft for my Boar, and I love it. Also, Rick Geschrey from Esoteric cues may be able to do it. These are two possibilities, and ther are countless others.

I shot with a Schon CX-52 for years.

I hope this might be of some help.

Braden
 
I've been wondering some of the same questions myself. In my case I have a Schon with a 314-2 shaft at 12.5mm. I've also been playing with with a Arnot with his T3 shaft with ivory and Kumuni black medium tip.

I like the feel of the ivory/Kumuni. So my Christmas present to myself might be a Schon ivory shaft with the black medium tip.

I guess that's why they make the cases with slots for all those extra shafts. You can tell yourself that the softer shaft/tip is for 7' bar box and the hard hit shaft/tip is for the 9' Gold Crown. Now something for that eight footer in my basement...:confused:
 
Buzzard II said:
I've been wondering some of the same questions myself. In my case I have a Schon with a 314-2 shaft at 12.5mm. I've also been playing with with a Arnot with his T3 shaft with ivory and Kumuni black medium tip.

I like the feel of the ivory/Kumuni. So my Christmas present to myself might be a Schon ivory shaft with the black medium tip.

I guess that's why they make the cases with slots for all those extra shafts. You can tell yourself that the softer shaft/tip is for 7' bar box and the hard hit shaft/tip is for the 9' Gold Crown. Now something for that eight footer in my basement...:confused:
Click to expand...

I got an 8 footer as well. That's all I play on.
 
BradenK said:
My friend and teammate has about ten nice custom cues, some worth between 3-5k from top tier makers. He shoots with his twenty year old Schon. But, he did alter the cue himself. He recently took the original joint off, and put on a piloted, ivory joint. The cue, in my and pretty much everyone elses opinion, plays much better now. It hits very firm, but with good feedback, and it is easy to work whitey.

As far as LD shafts, I personally have never played with one that I preferred over a good, standard shaft. If you are thinking about changing the shaft, I would look into seeing if you could have a custom maker do it, and with the type of taper to give you the hit you like. I have a Kenny Koo shaft for my Boar, and I love it. Also, Rick Geschrey from Esoteric cues may be able to do it. These are two possibilities, and ther are countless others.

I shot with a Schon CX-52 for years.

I hope this might be of some help.

Braden
Click to expand...

Thanks. I thought about the Ivory thing too. I'm going to look into that right now. Maybe a call to Schon and get that. However, it's hard to explain, but I think the feel I want is somewhere between the tip and the shaft taper. Or, it's like my wife says, "you don't miss much now, why do you want to screw things up?" She'll never understand the pool stick addiction problem I have.
 
I play with a Schon CX-06. I like smaller tips and short ferrules so I play with a McDermott I-3. It has a 11.75mm tip and a short ferrule and I really enjoy playing with that shaft. It gives me a sense of geometric precision when I hit the cue ball. The I-3 comes with a Moori soft tip and it's ideal for my game.The balance is perfect. I guess it's possible to have the Schon shaft turned down, the ferrule shortened, and a Moori soft tip installed. But the I-3 comes with a free lifetime maintenance plan. I send the shaft to McDermott and they clean it, reseal it, and install a new Moori soft tip. The only charge I pay is around $22 for shipping and handling. I have two I-3's and sent them both in at the same time and the only charge was the $22. That makes each shaft $11. You can't buy a new moori tip for that. The only other change was to install a black leather (snake skin pattern) wrap. Really enhanced the feel and the appearance. Never did care for the black and white linen wrap. Good luck with the changes to your Schon. I'm glad I did mine and would never part with that cue.
 
jed1894 said:
Hello all......looking for opinions from those who actually tried or experimented with tuning up their Schons. It's Christmas, so I got pool presents coming from the little wife. I decided to tune up my Schon with a different shaft, tip, etc. (maybe low deflection or something). I know I am probably wasting money, but I won't ever know unless I try and learn the hard way.

I am happy with the Schon cue and do not plan to switch. However, I've never been 100% happy with the hard hit of the tip. It's okay, but there has always been something with the shaft or tip that wasn't quite right with me. I can get the cue ball to work, but it requires a little more effort and I'm getting old and weak-eyed. I think it could be better. I like a firm hit, but it may be a tad too firm.

So, I tried the Triangle on a Schon shaft and it's better. That may be as good as it gets, but I think it could get better. I've tried a 12.75 Schon shaft with a Triangle and it effected the balance just a little. It also seemed (might be in head) a little less accurate for me. That may have been the answer too. I've heard a Joss shaft on a Schon butt is the ticket. I haven't experimented with that yet, but it looks like the taper is different. That's my next and cheapest experiment.

On a different approach, what about a LD shaft on the Schon. I'm not a big fan of LD shafts, but I understand things have changed within the last few years and some of the LD shafts are very firm. I don't want to get too far from the original feel of the cue. I know the Schon cue is designed to be a hard hitting cue. I've never tried a LD shaft on my Schon. I've tried on other cues (OB1 and 1st Gen Pred) and didn't like them too much. I know people have switch over to LD shafts on their Schons, but I also know there are people who have switched back.

I know someone will ask..... I'm not an expert, but probably a B+ player. I would not say that I'm good enough for a LD shaft to mess up my game. I mostly play with friends and we are usually intoxicated (just a little) when playing. I do not play in tournys anymore. I'm right a 50 now and been playing since 6 or 7. I have a pool table at home.

I know this topic has been asked before, but looking for new opinions on this issue. Thanks in advance. JED
Click to expand...

wd700 shaft on the schon ... best combo ever .... i like the mezz soooo much im switching to mezz butt an shaft
 
Send it to Rundy for -the ferrule and tune up.

He created it and he can tune it.(meaning re ferrule -tip with Originals-Make a new shaft. If its another quick fix- use a jacoby Edge shaft. I have all the Original shafts-all the way back to (Gus days and they looked built the same. Jacoby is sweeping the pool room players 6 at a time. Mark
 
Okay. I got hold of a Joss shaft this afternoon. I've been playing a little while in the pool room with it and comparing to my Schon with Triangle. Both 13mm--both with Triangle tips. There's definitely a difference. It might just be in my head, but it seems like I can control the cue ball a little better. It's hard to explain, but it's a different feel. I can tell the taper is different by looking at them. Too soon to tell.

jed
 
My opinion is to NOT modify your current Schon cue or shaft if you like how it plays. It is too hard to find a keeper and you might screw it up. Keep it as is till you find somthing that you like better. Get another Schon shaft to try different taper and tip. Get another Schon cue butt to try a different joint. Then you have your player to compare it to.

If you go LD, I suggest a Varney LD shaft. I bought three total and love them!
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=252474

Good luck!
 
JMW said:
My opinion is to NOT modify your current Schon cue or shaft if you like how it plays. It is too hard to find a keeper and you might screw it up. Keep it as is till you find somthing that you like better. Get another Schon shaft to try different taper and tip. Get another Schon cue butt to try a different joint. Then you have your player to compare it to.

If you go LD, I suggest a Varney LD shaft. I bought three total and love them!
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=252474

Good luck!
Click to expand...

I agree. I think a Schon shaft tapered like a Joss (pro taper) will do the trick for me. Or just shoot with a Joss shaft. I've heard that's a popular combination. I may try a Milk dud as well.

If I got this right: a schon shaft does not have much a pro taper (stiff) if at all. A Joss shaft is pro tapered (less stiff). Not to ask a dumb question, but I suppose Seyberts (billiard store I deal with) could put a Joss-like taper on a new Schon shaft without a problem. I may even send them a Milk dud to try as well.

I think the taper of the shaft is my tuning issue.

Thanks for all the replies.....I'll get something and let everyone know how it came out.
 
I use a 25 year old Schon myself and did switch to a low deflection shaft a few years back. I also switched to a soft Moori tip, but I play mostly One Pocket and that general style of play with a lot of english to move the cue ball around. The LD shaft took a lot of getting used to. Ironically, I suspect I was getting more english with a standard shaft -- but I was using too much english anyway, lol. Around the same time I also switched to more of an "aim through the center of the cue ball" aiming system (fractional ball maybe? -- sorry, I'm not into the aiming systems lingo), and to me, the low deflection shaft lends itself to aiming straight through. I am about your age and play about two times a week and I think these changes have actually helped me maintain my game because that shaft and that kind of aiming don't rely so much on feel -- just maybe anyway, lol :D:D
 
After a twenty some year break, I began shooting pool again. I used to shoot with a Richard Black but the cue was broken beyond repair back in 1990. I was going to have another Black made; however, I did not want to commit to a cue (and cost) that might sit idle in case I gave it up again.

I bought a Joss about two years ago and it did not quite feel right. Don't get me wrong... it is a nice cue; solid hit; but something was missing. After shooting with different cues, I bought a Schon STL 4.

The beauty of the Schon is it doesn't matter if the stick costs $300 or $3000; they hit the same. I ordered the shaft at 30" with an ivory ferrule and a Sniper medium tip. I was very happy with the hit.

As an experiment, I bought a Predator Z and a 314-2 shaft for the Schon both at 30" with a Sniper meduim tip. The Z shaft is not as forgiving as the 314 and the hit was somewhat stiff. I prefer the 314 shaft over the Z shaft and the LD shafts did help my game.

I am constantly trying to upgrade my equipment and I am experimenting with a Kamui Soft tip on the Predator 314. So far, I like it better than the Sniper. I'll get back to the Forum later with the feedback after I shoot a bit with the Kamui.

Try the LD shafts on the Schon. I don't think you will be disappointed; however, it may take some time to adjust to the point of impact on the object ball. You can do some amazing things after you adjust...

Best of luck to you...:thumbup:
 
Got a couple questions about shaft taper:

What is the Schon shaft taper?
What is the Joss shaft taper?
How much influence does taper have when it comes to cue ball action? (does the taper effect how much spin you can get on a cue ball)?

I've read conflicting information. Some say the same, some say different. This Joss shaft I'm trying feels different from the Schon shaft probably because of the taper. I don't have the proper tools to measure.

Before I take the LD plunge, I think I'm going to try a Schon shaft with a different taper. What suggestions would you guys have if I wanted to increase the taper just a little ?

thanks, jed
 
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Not sure about the Joss shaft, but the pro taper that the Schon shaft is shorter than "normal" pro-tapers, and that's what gives its unique stiff hit. As it is, I think it works pretty good unless you want to go a little off-center on the cue-ball (deflects a lot) and/or put a lot of action on it (not enough flex for that)...

What I figured that works the best for me is a Schon butt, a 314-2 with the Schon logo (these have the correct insert), and a pooldawg8 milk dud tip. The latter has a medium-hard hit with a very nice grip on the cue ball and I can put a lot action on the cue ball with this setup.
 
SeanC said:
Not sure about the Joss shaft, but the pro taper that the Schon shaft is shorter than "normal" pro-tapers, and that's what gives its unique stiff hit. As it is, I think it works pretty good unless you want to go a little off-center on the cue-ball (deflects a lot) and/or put a lot of action on it (not enough flex for that)...

What I figured that works the best for me is a Schon butt, a 314-2 with the Schon logo (these have the correct insert), and a pooldawg8 milk dud tip. The latter has a medium-hard hit with a very nice grip on the cue ball and I can put a lot action on the cue ball with this setup.
Click to expand...

Thanks. You know, one thing I've noticed since I started playing with a Schon a couple years ago is less action on the cue ball. I thought it was just me or the hard tip, but the more I play with it, the more I think that it may be the taper and/or stiffer shaft. I came from a custon Shurtz with a longer taper. Before the Shurtz, I played with a Meucci (1980 era) and other misc. cues that were not stiff. The stiffer Schon will probably make me a better pool player, but at my age my game is not going to improve that much.

Before I go with the LD shaft, I am going to figure out this taper thing. I am going to play with this Joss shaft a while and maybe try a turned down (12.75) Schon shaft.

Thanks for reply. JED
 
I loved the STIFF hit from my original Schon, and I was disappointed with the little softer hit from my Pred 314 shaft, but Ive played with 314 on my schon now for over 10 years and I cant go back to playing with a regular shaft.

It seems that you have the opposite thing happening, I think you'll love the Pred on your schon...if you like the whippier hit, go with a Z 12mm or so shaft.

Stiffer shafts give better feedback and hit in my opinion, but require a smoother stroke with more follow thru. The problem is that you went from one of the whippiest softest hitting cues to one of the hardest hitting cues in the world for a production cue.

You could soften the shaft to your liking...but then you are (in my opinion) paying to turn a nice hard hitting cue into a cue that would cost much less money.

My advice, give the cue a chance!!! Almost every good pool player is seeking that nice CRISP, hard hitting cue-youve got it, sure it doesnt feel right, but after you get used to it you'll never go back to a squirmy hitting cue!

Also as you stated, you'll start to improve your stroke which can only be a good thing! Stick to the basics, as we all need to remind ourselves...keep your head down and follow through the cue ball !
 
i would suggest either a lake salvaged shaft or something old and brown. i have two old schon shafts, brown phenolic joint collar with nickel ring, that are honey brown, 11.5 and 11.75 with short ivory ferrules. i call them mother natures 314's.
 
About ten years ago I had a guy turn my Schon shafts down from 13mm to 12.5mm...I used a very whippy GEM custom for several years that really juiced the cueball and missed that action. The turned down Schon shafts really made a difference in action on the cue ball, really juiced them up. I would NOT recommend this to everyone, as you can't go back if you don't like it. Plus it really depends on who you find to do the turning; some guys are artists, some will just screw your shafts up. My Schon shafts have a much longer pro taper than my Joss shafts, so not sure how others are making that comparison. Joss shafts work great on Schons, are less expensive, so you could give them a try. I just ordered a Gulyassy SPTX shaft for my cue; I've heard some good things about them, will post a review when it gets here...

If you haven't tried milk duds yet, you should...they surprised me greatly; try those first before you start spending money on after market shafts or doing permanent things to your existing shafts...you might find what you're looking for.
 
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