Opinion on "What if a cue gets lost in transition"

MasterClass

MasterClass

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello Everyone.

In light of some recent event that happened here. I would like to hear some opinion with regards to this topic.

Suppose a Seller sells a cue to a buyer in another country.

If the cue gets lost during shipping. Who bears the responsibility and losses?

If the cue gets seized at destination customs who bears responsibility and losses?

Because there seems to be some conflicting out come to 2 scenario one where a cue was lost and the buyer assumed responsibility. i think it was a purpleheart/purpleheart SW. Another was when a cue was thought to be lost and the buyer reversed payment leaving the seller with nothing if the cue was truly lost.

Is there a guideline or any opinion how it should be? What if the cue is seized in custom and a fine is required to secure its release. Then who to bear this cost?

It is not something that has happened to me. I would not discount the possibility that I could so I would really like to hear some opinion and learn from any experiences.

Best regards
Chris
 
IMO, there is no law here, you loose, what can you do about it, nothing.oh and by the way you could chalk it up as a loss

Steven
 
I think you have to cover yourself and send it with insurance covering the loss of your cue when shipping to overseas. I think only a few services offer that type of insurance for overseas delivery and they are more expensive. I would either eat the cost of this delivery with insurance or insist that the buyer pay for it before the purchase price is agreed on. This way you are covered the cost if it is lost.

Now as far as the cue being seized. If it is due to ivory or other illegal substance in the cue, if it is disclosed ahead of time that there may be a problem with shipping, then it is at the buyer's risk as it is illegal to ship. But if you did not disclose it before the sale, then you should take the loss.

Thats my opinion on it.
Vic
 
the customer loses out. he made his choice, he lives with it. the cuemaker fulfilled his job.

if it were me, i'd,,,,

1...never buy a cue overseas, especially if it has ivory.
2...ship fedex priority overnight insured.

you do the responsible things to protect yourself.
 
You send the money and no cue shows up, then what insurance will you have in getting your money back, none. people do go bad sometimes,

Steven
 
justabrake said:
You send the money and no cue shows up, then what insurance will you have in getting your money back, none. people do go bad sometimes,

Steven
Click to expand...

i correspond by email and save all of them. anything i say over the phone i restate in email.
 
From my understanding, Insurance covers lost of item but not damages or seizure by customs. So it is limited the coverage.

Base on what condition would a credit card company allow to reversal of payment? If the buyer claims that the item is not received or not as described, would the credit card company contact the seller for verification? If the seller has documents to show that the item has indeed been shipped, could the reversal of the payment still be done?

So someone could buy a really expensive cue then later reverse the credit card payment?

So I suppose the best way so far is to transact via escrow and not other way unless you are willing to take a risk.

Best regards
Chris
 
every country is different. customs and insurance wise.

buyer should assume all the risk, cause he knows there is one.


chris G
 
The sellers responsibility does not end when he ships out the package, it ends when the buyer receives it and is happy with his purchase.
Let's say this was not a private deal but, for example, you ordered a dvd from accu-stats (I did this recently, hence the example) and it didn't arrive. Would you accept an explanation like "Hey, we shipped it, so tough luck!"? I don't think so.
We (my parents own a store) send out many packages a week, if one gets lost we send a new one, it's crystal clear we didn't deliver the goods, the buyer pays for the shipping too so......
Insurance often isn't available for international shipments or costs so much that even if you'd lose one in 20 packages it still doesn't add up. JMO off course.

btw, I feel that a cue that gets confiscated by customs because of ivory is a whole different matter. When shipping something like that International, you have to work this angle out beforehand.

gr. Dave
 
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MasterClass said:
Hello Everyone.

In light of some recent event that happened here. I would like to hear some opinion with regards to this topic.

Suppose a Seller sells a cue to a buyer in another country.

If the cue gets lost during shipping. Who bears the responsibility and losses?

If the cue gets seized at destination customs who bears responsibility and losses?

Because there seems to be some conflicting out come to 2 scenario one where a cue was lost and the buyer assumed responsibility. i think it was a purpleheart/purpleheart SW. Another was when a cue was thought to be lost and the buyer reversed payment leaving the seller with nothing if the cue was truly lost.

Is there a guideline or any opinion how it should be? What if the cue is seized in custom and a fine is required to secure its release. Then who to bear this cost?

It is not something that has happened to me. I would not discount the possibility that I could so I would really like to hear some opinion and learn from any experiences.

Best regards
Chris
Click to expand...


Chris,

I always insure the items I ship so there is no problems like this. Now if I ship to another country and the buyer wishes to avoid insurance so they do not have to pay customs fees I always tell them once I ship the cue I am no longer responsible for it. I see nothing wrong with this as long as it is stated up front while making the deal. It should not be the sellers loss if the buyer does not want insurance and then the cue gets lost. As I said though. When I list a cue on here I include the shipping and insurance in the cost of the cue when I list it. The only way the shipping and insurance would be on the buyer is if it's in another country. Then I give them many options of shipping so they can pick the one they want and it's up to them if they want insurance or not. Anyone see anything wrong with this?

Thanks,
Josh Hillard
 
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Double-Dave said:
The sellers responsibility does not end when he ships out the package, it ends when the buyer receives it and is happy with his purchase......btw, I feel that a cue that gets confiscated by customs because of ivory is a whole different matter. When shipping something like that International, you have to work this angle out beforehand.

gr. Dave
Click to expand...

Agree with this principal, but will tell you that some insurance does not cover an item once it leaves our country. I have been told this on several occasions, most noteably with FedEx and UPS. Not to mention that with these same carriers, they will most certainly challenge and attempt to not cover your loss on let's say a $5000 cue. If you don't believe me, read their handbook or go ask someone there.

I would like to hear one person's story who was paid an insurance claim for a cue that was valued at a high amount, especially when it was lost overseas. Who was the carrier, the timeline of your story, etc. I personally don't know of any.

So, in summary, what is a buyer or seller to do ?? All you can do is ship with an expediated, reliable service, insure in case of loss, and cross your fingers. We've shipped many overseas, but so far the fingers crossed thing seems to have worked. And BTW, all were through USPS Global Express Mail.
 
Double-Dave said:
The sellers responsibility does not end when he ships out the package, it ends when the buyer receives it and is happy with his purchase.
gr. Dave
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This is the way I see it, too. Say I order a cue from a cuemaker... he ships it and I never receive it. I shouldn't be the one to take the hit. If the cue has ivory and customs are involved, it's up to the shipper to advise about the risk, and if the buyer is willing to take that risk, only then should the buyer take the loss. JMO.
 
Double-Dave said:
The sellers responsibility does not end when he ships out the package, it ends when the buyer receives it and is happy with his purchase.
Let's say this was not a private deal but, for example, you ordered a dvd from accu-stats (I did this recently, hence the example) and it didn't arrive. Would you accept an explanation like "Hey, we shipped it, so tough luck!"? I don't think so.
We (my parents own a store) send out many packages a week, if one gets lost we send a new one, it's crystal clear we didn't deliver the goods, the buyer pays for the shipping too so......
Insurance often isn't available for international shipments or costs so much that even if you'd lose one in 20 packages it still doesn't add up. JMO off course.

btw, I feel that a cue that gets confiscated by customs because of ivory is a whole different matter. When shipping something like that International, you have to work this angle out beforehand.

gr. Dave
Click to expand...

I just sold a cue and shipped it to spain, I had in the auction if you want insurance let me know before paying and that will be extra, if the guy doesn't ask and after paying for the cue the and shipping charges on the auction to me that doesn't sound like he wanted to pay for insurance and he wants me to ship it the way he paid,This is what I do after shipping the, I take a photo or 2 of the receite and I email it to the buyer showing I shipped it out, now in MOP the cue is out of my hands and is his responcibility from there , if it's damaged it's not my problem, if it's lost I will go to the post office and inquire about it and see if anything could be done but thats about all I can do and it's not my responcibility once its out of my hands and I have a receite showing it and the buyer didn't ask for insurance and if he would have asked I would do the insurance forms and try to recover his money , but like cueaddicts said>" but will tell you that some insurance does not cover an item once it leaves our country"
that I have also been told a dozen times,


Steven
 
I prefer that everything I ship gets insured full boat. It's not even an option. I'm not getting caught up in this mickey mouse BS. If I insure it fully, I'm protected. Furthermore...anyone that wants to arrange an alternative method of shipment, such as under-insuring the product...I have a waiver/disclaimer I FAX to the customer that they must sign stating that they're aware of the approach they have decided to take, and anything that occurs to the cue once it leaves my possession, is not my problem. I'll wait for payment to arrive, clear, and wait out any period of time the buyer would typically have available to them to recover their money so I don't ship the cue out, then have them pull the rug out from under me if something happens to it.

That's the thing I don't get. As a seller...I provide my customers with options. I have a number of cues they can choose from...and once they make a purchase...the method which they use to obtain their cue is their choice too. They're paying for it...I suppose they should have a right to chose how it gets there. However...once you pick your poison...do not come back to me wondering where your stuff is. I'll have a receipt...and I'll make sure the cue is insured so I take no loss if something happens. But as far as covering your own ass...that's up to you.

What kills me...is these threads are good for coming up at least once a month...and no one learns. They still try to sneak ivory through customs...they still under insure product.... It's just astounding. I have to laugh sometimes because with all the good reading at your disposal...you'd think people would have developed a more sound game plan for doing this type of business...would think people would learn some lessons...done some research...become a little more aware of what's an increasingly volatile environment. You would think.
 
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Firm policies: I don't buy out of country. I don't ship out of country. (at least not off the continent) I insure to the hilt on a valuable or valued cue.
 
hasn't the post office told you once it leaves the country there not responcible anymore for it , I have been told that a few times, they say it's in anothers hands. your insurance for that item is only for the US, once it leaves these territorys there not responcible for it, so to me it's on the other ends problems IMO ,

Retail10-so if you shipped USPS and put insurance on it and it leaves this country what are you going to do if it gets lost past our borders ??? and the USPS says it's not insured after that, what are you going to tell your customer???


Steven
 
when i list cues on ebay, i try and remember that if it has ivory to mark that i will not sell internationally. i forgot the last time and a customer from singapore asked about shipping. i replied that i use us postal global express mail insured (ems) but that the buyer is responsible if the cue is held up or siezed at customs. it is not the seller's fault if that happens, the buyer should be aware of what is permissable. just my own opinion.

guy
 
We disagree on this subject. Like I wrote above, insurance often isn't available for international shipments or costs so much (you usually have to take a faster, more expensive way of shipping if you want insurance) that it just isn't worth it. So simply because you offered the buyer the option of insuring the package doesn't relieve you of your obligation IMO.

I basically feel that the insurance is something to ease the mind of THE SELLER. If the package gets lost, the buyer will contact the seller for a refund, not the post-office. The seller can then (if he got insurance) get his money back from usps or whatever.

The thing is IMO there is no grey area when it comes to shipping/receiving a package. It either gets there and the buyer is happy with it at which point the sellers responsibility stops. If the buyer isn't happy for any reason (item not as described, item didn't arrive, wrong item) the seller has to make things right. Ebay works pretty much the same way and I imagine the law works likes this too.

p.s. Keep in mind I normally buy and sell lower value cues, and try to make a buck or two off of it. If I were to buy for example a nice Scruggs as my new playing cue, then I would have it shipped Fedex or UPS overnight insured. However, if resale is your goal and you want to make a buck, then you have to take a little more risk.

And again, ivory getting seized by customs is a whole different story.

justabrake said:
I just sold a cue and shipped it to spain, I had in the auction if you want insurance let me know before paying and that will be extra, if the guy doesn't ask and after paying for the cue the and shipping charges on the auction to me that doesn't sound like he wanted to pay for insurance and he wants me to ship it the way he paid,This is what I do after shipping the, I take a photo or 2 of the receite and I email it to the buyer showing I shipped it out, now in MOP the cue is out of my hands and is his responcibility from there , if it's damaged it's not my problem, if it's lost I will go to the post office and inquire about it and see if anything could be done but thats about all I can do and it's not my responcibility once its out of my hands and I have a receite showing it and the buyer didn't ask for insurance and if he would have asked I would do the insurance forms and try to recover his money , but like cueaddicts said>" but will tell you that some insurance does not cover an item once it leaves our country"
that I have also been told a dozen times,


Steven
Click to expand...
 
If the package is lost or damaged intransit, responsibility is that of the shipper. They must initiate the claim process. They were the ones that had to insure it, at the receiver's expense.

Customs is a different monster altogether but it still falls on the shipper. He must know what he is shipping, where it is going, what borders it may cross, and address those beforehand. If it gets confiscated, he did something wrong.

All that being said, if the shipper is not one of the "good guys" then you may be SOL.
 
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