Opinion question on sportsmanship

J

Jeff Rosen

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have read many times that it's good sportsmanship to admit a foul if your opponent didn't catch it and I agree with that.
So I was wondering, if you make a second consecutive foul and your opponent doesn't realize it, is it poor sportsmanship if you play dumb and don't tell your opponent that you're on two? And then if you foul again you remain Quiet? Happened to me the other night in a league match. I fouled 3 times and didn't tell my opponent. The rules say the opponent must say "you're on two" after the second foul so I was OK as far as the rules are concerned. Yet I kind of felt guilty as it should have been a loss right there. As it turned out I lost the game anyway.
Opinions? Should one admit when they're on two.
 
sportsmanship v opponent responsibility

Jeff:

Good question; I'm glad everyone on this site is so very honest.
 
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I agree with what you did. Your opponent must let you know that you are on 2 fouls and he must get an acknowledgment from you. However I did tell an opponent once in a tournament that I was on two but that person happened happened to be a very good friend.
 
Jeff Rosen said:
I have read many times that it's good sportsmanship to admit a foul if your opponent didn't catch it and I agree with that.
So I was wondering, if you make a second consecutive foul and your opponent doesn't realize it, is it poor sportsmanship if you play dumb and don't tell your opponent that you're on two? And then if you foul again you remain Quiet? Happened to me the other night in a league match. I fouled 3 times and didn't tell my opponent. The rules say the opponent must say "you're on two" after the second foul so I was OK as far as the rules are concerned. Yet I kind of felt guilty as it should have been a loss right there. As it turned out I lost the game anyway.
Opinions? Should one admit when they're on two.
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I guess it depends. In tournament/league there is code of conduct you should follow. But in a gambling situation, that goes right out the window. I have never seen a game for money where I witnessed a player foul and the player called it on himself. Something else is on the line besides trophies and bragging rights. So unless the the opponent calls it, and there's a witness, it didnt happen. Comes with the territory on this side I suppose, but then you'll undoubtedly will get arguments to follow.

In league/tournament you want your win to be clean as a whistle. In gambling, you're trying to hustle, and calling a foul on yourself is counter-productive. This by no means says you're cheating. It is the responsibility of the opponent to attend to the game. If he didn't see it. His tough luck.
 
I've often argued this point -

If you don't tell your opponent that you fouled, and he didn't see it, the argument goes "its his responsibility to watch the match".

So would it be the same argument to reach out and move a blocking object ball because he didn't pay attention it's fair?
 
You know that feeling when you know your wrong, it comes up in more then pool. When gambling, playing a tournament, or coaching your kids team, you know whats right.

What you choose says alot about who you are. Its about how you conduct yourself when no one is watching.
 
Skratch said:
I guess it depends. In tournament/league there is code of conduct you should follow. But in a gambling situation, that goes right out the window. I have never seen a game for money where I witnessed a player foul and the player called it on himself. Something else is on the line besides trophies and bragging rights. So unless the the opponent calls it, and there's a witness, it didnt happen. Comes with the territory on this side I suppose, but then you'll undoubtedly will get arguments to follow.

In league/tournament you want your win to be clean as a whistle. In gambling, you're trying to hustle, and calling a foul on yourself is counter-productive. This by no means says you're cheating. It is the responsibility of the opponent to attend to the game. If he didn't see it. His tough luck.
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I always call fouls on myself, gambling or not. Called one last time I gambled - I barely touched the cue ball and picked it up immediately and handed it to my opponent. Still don't know if he saw it or not.
My honor is worth way more than money........at least now - we never really know what we are capable of if we are put in a desperate situation. Hope I never find out.
Jason
 
Jeff Rosen said:
I have read many times that it's good sportsmanship to admit a foul if your opponent didn't catch it and I agree with that.
So I was wondering, if you make a second consecutive foul and your opponent doesn't realize it, is it poor sportsmanship if you play dumb and don't tell your opponent that you're on two? And then if you foul again you remain Quiet? Happened to me the other night in a league match. I fouled 3 times and didn't tell my opponent. The rules say the opponent must say "you're on two" after the second foul so I was OK as far as the rules are concerned. Yet I kind of felt guilty as it should have been a loss right there. As it turned out I lost the game anyway.
Opinions? Should one admit when they're on two.
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This is an interesting question. I think you have found a moral grey area lol.

1. I would tell my opponent if I fouled and no one saw.
2. I would tell my opponent if they were lined up to shoot the wrong ball on accident.
3. I would not tell my opponent I am on 2 or 3 fouls unless they ask.

The reason I wouldn't say anything for #3 is this: It should take skill to 3 foul someone. Not only physical skill to play good safeties but also awareness skills to remember how many fouls have been taken. If you don't remember to warn your opponent you either don't have the awareness skills required or you really weren't trying for the three foul and in both cases you don't deserve to win that match.
 
Philly is right, your opponent must say you're at two fouls.
But, remember that two wrongs do not make a right. Wait a minute. Two wrongs and you're right. No, damn it. Two right turns and you're on the wrong block. Shit! Two Wongs are Chinese twins. Crap! Two rights and you're on the wrong side of town.
Ah, screw it! :)
 
jasonlaus said:
I always call fouls on myself, gambling or not. Called one last time I gambled - I barely touched the cue ball and picked it up immediately and handed it to my opponent. Still don't know if he saw it or not.
My honor is worth way more than money........at least now - we never really know what we are capable of if we are put in a desperate situation. Hope I never find out.
Jason
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You Sir are a Rara Avis! I would agree on terms of moral standing, but ..... I preceded my statement with the fact that these codes of honor usually are ignored when gambling. Again, I don't think its cheating if you dont tell your opponent, but you're expecting him to do the same. So this sorta evens it out, in my opinion. It would be nice if 2 players wagered on a matched, played their honest best, and played a clean game. I dont see that happen too often when it comes to money games. Money is the goal and not a good game. If it were simply for a good game, you dont need to gamble on it.
 
Skratch said:
You Sir are a Rara Avis! I would agree on terms of moral standing, but ..... I preceded my statement with the fact that these codes of honor usually are ignored when gambling. Again, I don't think its cheating if you dont tell your opponent, but you're expecting him to do the same. So this sorta evens it out, in my opinion. It would be nice if 2 players wagered on a matched, played their honest best, and played a clean game. I dont see that happen too often when it comes to money games. Money is the goal and not a good game. If it were simply for a good game, you dont need to gamble on it.
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I try to always be honest either way, Not much of a playing for free fan. :D

When gambling, I try to keep an eye on my "honest" opponent.
 
Jeff Rosen said:
I have read many times that it's good sportsmanship to admit a foul if your opponent didn't catch it and I agree with that.
So I was wondering, if you make a second consecutive foul and your opponent doesn't realize it, is it poor sportsmanship if you play dumb and don't tell your opponent that you're on two? And then if you foul again you remain Quiet? Happened to me the other night in a league match. I fouled 3 times and didn't tell my opponent. The rules say the opponent must say "you're on two" after the second foul so I was OK as far as the rules are concerned. Yet I kind of felt guilty as it should have been a loss right there. As it turned out I lost the game anyway.
Opinions? Should one admit when they're on two.
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By the rules, it's NOT loss of game if your opponent didn't tell you you're on two fouls. There's no "should have been" about it.

Whether or not you want to remind your opponent to tell you you're on two fouls is up to you. But if he's paying so little attention to the game he probably won't even hear you, and say back to you "Okay, you're on two fouls." No sympathy for him.
 
I've always called fouls on myself. But my view is this: Anyone can glance away from the table for a few seconds and miss a foul. If you miss three in a row that's your own damn fault. I'm out to play with honor, but I'm not out to play the game for someone. If they are aware enough to ask, I'll gladly tell them. (Maybe no gladly, but you know what I mean). I figure if they're paying that little attention it's rude to begin with, they don't deserve to be handed a game they aren't watching.
 
If you don't call a foul on yourself and I find out, you'll never get another game with me as long as you live.

If I blackball you, most of the rest of the locals won't play you either.
 
Cracktherack said:
If you don't call a foul on yourself and I find out, you'll never get another game with me as long as you live.

If I blackball you, most of the rest of the locals won't play you either.
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Damn son, now we're talkin. This is how it should always be.:thumbup:
 
I call fouls on myself and if he misses noticing it I let him know that I know I'm on two......I played this guy in a bar tourney this year,he committed a very close hit I thought was bad but said nothing on.He gets out and then smirky ass laughing says "you should have called me out on that bad hit,it was bad for sure".I said "I didn't know I was playing a guy that would make bad hits and try to cheat me or I would have."

My name is worth more than an extra $80 on a Friday night.
 
Integrity means doing the right thing even when nobody is watching or you don't think you will be "exposed".
 
I honestly don't see the difference between what you should do on foul one, or two, or three for that matter. At the end of the day though as long as you follow the stated rules as they are written that's pretty much technically is expected of you I'd guess.
 
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