Opinions of being a 7 in APA

[TheBook]

What is the general opinions of players ranked a 7 in the APA. Do they help or hurt a team? Do other players resent them playing in the league or do they appreciate them?

I have joined a APA team for the first time because I want to get out and test my ability and get into tournaments, and get to know other players. The only other league play has been a Moose partner league. Naturally I started as a 4 and heard rumblings (mostly in jest) while playing that there was no way I could be a 4 and my captain was trying to pull a fast one. No one on my team has even seen me shoot before and I did not know them until the day that I walked in and asked if they needed a player. The 3rd week I was bumped to a 7. I am not going to sandbag and my captain told me he don't want me to. We have no problem staying under the 23 rule. I am good but not that great. I can just win games. I am not a break and run player that can constantly run racks but if I get a open table, lucky breakouts, or ball in hand I am out. I have heard a few players from the other teams saying that if they were a 7 they wouldn't be messing around in the APA.

Actually our league seems to be fairly laid back and not that serious. Our League Operator told me that this week in one of his other leagues a player had a heart attack while shooting and was taken out by EMS. The other team wants them to forfeit the game, now that is serious.

 

[Koop]

What is the general opinions of players ranked a 7 in the APA. Do they help or hurt a team? Do other players resent them playing in the league or do they appreciate them?

The only problem with being a 7 is it's real tough to fit them in under the 23 rule and still maintain a good team.

I'm a 6 and can tell you that my favorite players to match up against are 7's. Not that I beat them all the time but I always like to play better players and, for the most part, the 7's are stronger players than me.
We have a 7 on our team who, in my opinion, is the strongest player in the league by far but he rarely gets to shoot. Not to mention he is a part-time AZ contributor to the forums

Koop

 

[PoolFool]

I have a question... I am a 7 in the APA... I feel I am underated... what would this mean? ahahahahhahaha

 

[cuechick]

The thing about being a 7 is a 7 can really be an 8 or 9 or 10. I have been a 7 for over a year and though I do pretty well, there is so much grey. I think a 7 can be a c+ player or better. I Q'ed last year for the APA singles in Vegas and honestly I expected to be blown out of the water. I did surprisingly well, winning my first two then losing the next 2 both double hill. The last guy who I lost too, was a better at sharking than playing and unfortunately I let it get to me. I was surprised to see him go on to finish 9th!
Still one of my best friends from NYC is a 7 and on my best day, he would kill me. He is a true A player and that is thing, you just don't know...
For me the biggest advantage is the intimidation factor, people get nervous playing 7's. I would much rather play a 6 (anytime Koop ;-)!) cause unless they are underrated I know what I am dealing with...
I am playing in the Singles Regionals this weekend and am looking at it as a great chance to test my skill. I have improved a lot and have really just begun to feel like I am a pretty strong 7. I do not get to play many 7's locally so this will be interesting. Also being the only female 7 in the event is just kind of fun ;-)!
As a new player you may go up and down a bit...this is natural, so just relax and enjoy. APA should be fun.

 

[Koop]

For me the biggest advantage is the intimidation factor, people get nervous playing 7's. I would much rather play a 6 (anytime Koop ;-)!) cause unless they are underrated I know what I am dealing with...

You got a game

I can honestly say that I do not get nervous. If I'm playing a true 7 I will probably get beat based on them being a better player.

Koop

 

[The Piper]

I have heard alot about the APA, and have been thinking about joining. Does anyone know if and where the APA plays in Massachusetts so I can go watch the format?

 

[Cory in DC]

What is the general opinions of players ranked a 7 in the APA. Do they help or hurt a team? Do other players resent them playing in the league or do they appreciate them?

I have joined a APA team for the first time because I want to get out and test my ability and get into tournaments, and get to know other players. The only other league play has been a Moose partner league. Naturally I started as a 4 and heard rumblings (mostly in jest) while playing that there was no way I could be a 4 and my captain was trying to pull a fast one. No one on my team has even seen me shoot before and I did not know them until the day that I walked in and asked if they needed a player. The 3rd week I was bumped to a 7. I am not going to sandbag and my captain told me he don't want me to. We have no problem staying under the 23 rule. I am good but not that great. I can just win games. I am not a break and run player that can constantly run racks but if I get a open table, lucky breakouts, or ball in hand I am out. I have heard a few players from the other teams saying that if they were a 7 they wouldn't be messing around in the APA.

Actually our league seems to be fairly laid back and not that serious. Our League Operator told me that this week in one of his other leagues a player had a heart attack while shooting and was taken out by EMS. The other team wants them to forfeit the game, now that is serious.

It sounds like you should be breaking and running a little more often -- you may be playing too conservative, or you may settle in at 6 after a few more matches. But in terms of helping/hurting a team, it's not clear that a 7 is great for a team. In my area Shorty Hensen is extremely dominant as a 7, but I can't remember his team making it to Vegas in the last few years (though I could be wrong).

In contrast, last year I was a very strong 6, and we always had solid roster options, like 6-5-4-4-4 and 6-6-5-4-2. And we made it to Vegas and then to the round of 33-64 (losing when Eric from NJ, who posts here, beat me ).

Long story short: I went up to a 7 shortly thereafter. It hasn't really affected my win percentage--I've been around 85% or so since then. But my team is noticeably less competitive because our rosters that work with a 7 in it just aren't as strong. 7-5-5-4-2 sounds pretty good, but a real 2 is an 70-80% loss, and there's a lot of 7s in the area that are favorites against me, so we end up in situations where the 5's and the 4 have to go 3-0, which is far from a lock.

The problem I think is that if you field a 7 then you almost have to play a 2. Other options, like 7-4-4-4-4 or 7-5-4-4-3, sound pretty good, but they seem to falter. Opponents can duck the 7 and match up their best players on the lower handicaps.

Another thing about 7's. Since I went up, I notice a lot of players get nervous playing me and dog a lot of shots. So that's one plus. But that mostly applies in weekly play, less so in Vegas qualifiers and such.

Cory

 

[cuechick]

Hey Koop,
Maybe it is the "Chick" factor, I live in a place where a lot of men think I should be home cooking (I actually had a guy ask me that, and he was NOT being a smart a$$!) Also most experiranced 6's are probably the exception as far as being intimidated. I end up playing mostly 5's & sometimes 4's and when I was that level I was intimidated by 7's.
At the last regionals though, in the finals, I played a 6 and I swear if you could have seen his face when he realized I was giving him a game!

Oh, I do enjoy being a girl! ;-)

 

[cuechick]

I have heard alot about the APA, and have been thinking about joining. Does anyone know if and where the APA plays in Massachusetts so I can go watch the format?

Check the APA website poolplayers.com I think? I think they have away to search out leagues in your area.

 

[Koop]

Hey Koop,
Maybe it is the "Chick" factor, I live in a place where a lot of men think I should be home cooking (I actually had a guy ask me that, and he was NOT being a smart a$$!) Also most experiranced 6's are probably the exception. I end up playing mostly 5's & sometimes 4's.
At the last regionals though, in the finals, I played a 6 and I swear if you could have seen his face when he realized I was giving him a game!

Oh, I do enjoy being a girl! ;-)

Too funny and you're probably right.
For some reason I've seen guys pull up when playing a woman when they should be getting down and dirty. It's almost like a built in excuse for losing to a girl.

 

[Koop]

I have heard alot about the APA, and have been thinking about joining. Does anyone know if and where the APA plays in Massachusetts so I can go watch the format?

Where do you live?

I play APA out of the Weymouth / Quincy area.

PM me if you don't want to say publicly.

Koop

 

[ScottW]

I'm a 6 myself. In our league, we've got two 7s. (Used to have three, one was my old team captain.)

I have to agree with some of the above comments - a 7 could be 7 or 7+, depending. And some 7s I've met, I really do wonder - why are they still in the APA? Some of'em, I imagine, it's due to several factors - wanting to stay in a league that they know they can't go up in (i.e. easier wins), the social aspect (sticking with a team they've been with for a while), etc.

Me, I'm looking to try and pick up a BCA league on a different night than my APA league, to see if I can't use that to improve more so that I *do* become a 7 sometime before end of the year. I hate sandbagging.

 

[mrsboss]

I am a 7 also, only been one for about a month. Being the only girl 7 in my league my team thinks it is great. But... I have learned that to be a great 7 you must have the experience to hold it together and bring your tean through. They depend on you for everything.

 

[cuechick]

I have played pool long enough now to see every possible reaction from men...I have been underestimated and overestimated. I will admit, I feel either is always too my advantage.
In a recent Viking event, the first game I played against a guy who did not know me, I pushed out, he gave it back to me. Not a shot I would ever give back, a make-able shot, but tough to get on the 2 ball. I jacked up, cut it and drew the cue across the table for perfect shape on the 2 and ran out. I went on to win the match...
I have no doubt had a been a man, he would not have let me shoot that shot. But this event is the polar opposite of the APA, he had no clue as to how I played. Since the Viking event lets woman play free, there is a huge variation of levels.
I do think for some men it is a lot about ego, they really do not want to lose to a woman. I know this weekend exactly who I will be playing, a bunch of guys. Me, they do not expect ;-)!

 

[Gregg]

Our former APA team had two SL7s who would alternate every league night/playoff match.

I have a lot of knowledge of this issue, and have seen a lot of things come up over the course of a few years.

The problem with having an SL7 who of course would shoot every match on our team is obvious that you have to shoot lower SL shooters to keep under the 23 rule. Not only that but you really have to shoot an SL2 or SL3 in the playoffs as well to keep under. Also you can forget about having a SL6 on the team. The two equal 13, and you would have to shoot a SL3 X2, and and SL4 to keep it at 23.

So you can see where having an SL7 can limit who else you can shoot significantly.

Likewise, if you do shoot as an SL7, you better win! You cannot take up that amount of the team points, lose, and expect some of the lower shooters to come through. It makes it more difficult, and I can remember losing all of our playoff matches and money tournaments when the SL7s lost. Not impossible to recover from, but hard to get any good match ups.

Now, if you want to talk 9 ball...We had a SL9 on our team, and let me tell you, he would make on average it seemed five or six balls each time he would walk up to the table, and still lose by a big split to a strong SL5 who needed half his points. Also, anything can happen off the break on a bar table with no push out.

You can see where the APA caters to the masses of their leagues, SL3s and SL4s make up the majority, and this is who butters their bread. They don't want ringers coming in and winning the HPT and Playoffs every session.

This is why this team now shoots on a TAP league, where everyone drops one SL (one of the sevens is a six, the other a seven in TAP), and the team SL totals can be up to 25. We never even have to count the points, and everyone can play every night.

 

[Poolkat]

in our area, we have alot of good 7s, we also have some 7s who are probably too good to be playing in league, but they play because of their wife/girlfriend wants to play. we have a local bylaw that those 7s have agreed on, and they basically play as an 8, they have to win 1 more game. there are 5 or 6 of them I think, and they still win most of their matches, but it makes it even more fun for the average players, because they get to play a great player and still have hope of maybe winning.

 

[hustlefinger]

What is the general opinions of players ranked a 7 in the APA. Do they help or hurt a team? Do other players resent them playing in the league or do they appreciate them?

Generally, I think 7’s are good for the team, whether that be playing and/or coaching. But the heart and soul of any APA team is the middle SL players, 3’s, 4’s and 5’s. These are the players that get you to Vegas. Also, as much of a difference there is between 2’s and 7’s there is that much of a difference in the 7 skill level itself. Maybe that’s somewhat exaggerated, but still there is a big difference.

It’s quite clever of the APA to put a total SL limit of 23 on the team. Knowing that if players like playing the natural progression is for them to get better and raise their handicap, in time creating another team and recruiting new players. It’s like a virus.

Assuming you were talking about the 8 ball league. But if you consider the 9 ball league and have to field a SL 9 under the 23 rule, then I believe that’s a little unfair. In this case IMO, 9’s hurt the team if they play. A benefit if they coach but a hindrance if they play, even if they win 100% of the time. They still take one slot of a five man team and consume 40% of the 23 rule.

I don’t believe players resent having top rate players on their team because of SL. They want the best chance to win and learn.

Rick

 

[supergreenman]

Hey Koop,
Maybe it is the "Chick" factor, I live in a place where a lot of men think I should be home cooking (I actually had a guy ask me that, and he was NOT being a smart a$$!) Also most experiranced 6's are probably the exception as far as being intimidated. I end up playing mostly 5's & sometimes 4's and when I was that level I was intimidated by 7's.
At the last regionals though, in the finals, I played a 6 and I swear if you could have seen his face when he realized I was giving him a game!

Oh, I do enjoy being a girl! ;-)

I personally would never underestimate a "chick" , in fact I'm counting on the "chick" factor for next years season. The team I'm putting together for next years VNEA league is going to have 2 "chicks" on it. One of the girls is on my BCA rules wednesday team and she is one of the most consistant players on the team. I've always had to bring my best game playing her. Time and time again I've seen men underestimate her and end up getting smoked. .

 

[ScottW]

in our area, we have alot of good 7s, we also have some 7s who are probably too good to be playing in league, but they play because of their wife/girlfriend wants to play. we have a local bylaw that those 7s have agreed on, and they basically play as an 8, they have to win 1 more game. there are 5 or 6 of them I think, and they still win most of their matches, but it makes it even more fun for the average players, because they get to play a great player and still have hope of maybe winning.

Here in the Denver area, there's a couple of bracket tournament series (i.e. one's 2/3, 4/5, 6/7 - other is 2/3/4, 5/6/7) that are APA-based - i.e. got to be an APA player with a handicap, APA rules, etc.

In those tournaments, they have what they call a "super 7" category that some of the 7s play under - which is just like you guys do, they have to win six games instead of five.

I think that's commendable that your higher-level players all agree to that rule. It makes it more fair, without jacking up the whole handicap system.

 

[Rich R.]

What is the general opinions of players ranked a 7 in the APA.

I am assuming you are mean a 7 in APA 8-ball. An APA 7 can be anywhere from slightly above the level of a 6, upto pro caliber. Not necessarily in the same tournament, but I have seen a 7, in regional 9-ball tournaments, beat players like Mike Davis, Keith McCready and Jose Parica, among others.

Do they help or hurt a team?

I don't believe they ever hurt, but they don't necessarily help either. Because of the 23 total handicap rule, to play the 7, you have to adjust the rest of your roster for the night. Help or hurt depends a lot on the team.

Do other players resent them playing in the league or do they appreciate them?

We have a number of 7's in my league and I have never heard of anyone resenting them, just because they were a 7. A person may not like a 7, but it usually has nothing to do with the fact that they are a 7.

I have joined a APA team for the first time because I want to get out and test my ability and get into tournaments, and get to know other players. The only other league play has been a Moose partner league. Naturally I started as a 4 and heard rumblings (mostly in jest) while playing that there was no way I could be a 4 and my captain was trying to pull a fast one. No one on my team has even seen me shoot before and I did not know them until the day that I walked in and asked if they needed a player. The 3rd week I was bumped to a 7. I am not going to sandbag and my captain told me he don't want me to. We have no problem staying under the 23 rule. I am good but not that great. I can just win games. I am not a break and run player that can constantly run racks but if I get a open table, lucky breakouts, or ball in hand I am out. I have heard a few players from the other teams saying that if they were a 7 they wouldn't be messing around in the APA.

Because you are new to the APA, your skill level will change a lot, until you have between 10 and 20 matches on the books. Then it will stabilize. You may or may not remain a 7.

Everyone in the league should know, as a new, and unknown, player, you start out as a 4. Your skill level will catch up to you, in time. Don't pay attention to the rumblings. As long as they are talking about you, they are leaving someone else alone.

I commend your captain for not asking you to sandbag. Not all captains are as honest. Play your best and you will always be able to hold your head high.
BTW, I have been playing in the APA for a few years and I am currently a 6 and I hope to be a 7 someday. Like you, I am fortunate, in that my team captain has never once asked me to sandbag or dump a match.

Actually our league seems to be fairly laid back and not that serious. Our League Operator told me that this week in one of his other leagues a player had a heart attack while shooting and was taken out by EMS. The other team wants them to forfeit the game, now that is serious.

Enjoy that APA, as it is meant to be a fun evening. You will get some good competition, but you will also have some frustrating nights trying to overcome the handicap. Just keep in mind, pool is a game and it is suppose to be fun. Treat it as such.