Parallel English - amount of squirt

[jsp]

Another thing I rarely see mentioned concerning Side Spin is why Inside seems to be different? Do you ever think about it?

There is fundamentally no difference in the amount of squirt between inside and outside.

But in terms of actually pocketing the ball, inside or outside english can make a world of difference. Because of throw. Throw (whether it is SIT or CIT or both) cannot be entirely dismissed in these types of discussions. If anything, I don't think we emphasize throw enough.

 

[336Robin]

There is fundamentally no difference in the amount of squirt between inside and outside.

Yes this is true.

But in terms of actually pocketing the ball, inside or outside english can make a world of difference. Because of throw. Throw (whether it is SIT or CIT or both) cannot be entirely dismissed in these types of discussions. If anything, I don't think we emphasize throw enough.

When we play outside spin we have room for error that we don't have with inside. So in this way when you play outside you can get away without accounting for the 100% squirt value due to assisting spin.

If that is true then what you get with Inside is 100% of the squirt and correspondingly need a larger allowance because the non assisting spin bites into the object ball immediately sending it on its way without slipping/spinning/throwing to assist it.

 

[jsp]

When we play outside spin we have room for error that we don't have with inside. So in this way when you play outside you can get away without accounting for the 100% squirt value due to assisting spin.

If that is true then what you get with Inside is 100% of the squirt and correspondingly need a larger allowance because the non assisting spin bites into the object ball immediately sending it on its way without slipping/spinning/throwing to assist it.

I agree with what you say, but to a point. What you say are adequate general rules, but they are not always true.

Hitting the CB with outside spin doesn't always mean that you'll reduce the effects of squirt. And likewise, hitting the CB with inside spin doesn't always mean that there will be more throw than a shot with no side spin.

The amount of throw depends on the relative surface speeds of the CB and OB. The lower the surface speed of the CB relative to the surface speed of the OB at contact, the more throw tends to occur (unless the surface speed is zero). The higher the relative surface speeds, the less throw tends to occur.

So if you hit the CB with outside spin but not enough spin to perfectly cancel out throw (surface speed of CB relative to the OB at contact is still going away from the pocket), you can actually get more throw than if you were to hit the shot with no side spin.

And if you hit the CB with enough inside spin such that relative surface speeds of the CB and OB are fast enough, then you can actually get less throw than if you were to hit the shot with no side spin.

Only way you find out these nuances is through time and experience.

 

[336Robin]

I agree with what you say, but to a point. What you say are adequate general rules, but they are not always true.

Hitting the CB with outside spin doesn't always mean that you'll reduce the effects of squirt. And likewise, hitting the CB with inside spin doesn't always mean that there will be more throw than a shot with no side spin.

The amount of throw depends on the relative surface speeds of the CB and OB. The lower the surface speed of the CB relative to the surface speed of the OB at contact, the more throw tends to occur (unless the surface speed is zero). The higher the relative surface speeds, the less throw tends to occur.

So if you hit the CB with outside spin but not enough spin to perfectly cancel out throw (surface speed of CB relative to the OB at contact is still going away from the pocket), you can actually get more throw than if you were to hit the shot with no side spin.

And if you hit the CB with enough inside spin such that relative surface speeds of the CB and OB are fast enough, then you can actually get less throw than if you were to hit the shot with no side spin.

Only way you find out these nuances is through time and experience.

I didnt say that. What I said was that the assisting nature of using outside on shots has a forgiveness to it that inside does not. I might not have used those exact concise words but that is what I said.

So when you play inside you have to be on the money with your allowance for it.

It will seem as if your squirt is greater using inside but indeed it is not. So I think we are pretty much on the same page.