Parkin' the rock

[Cornerman]

That's one way of doing it, but the "1 tip above center" break has a limit to how hard you can hit it. You don't have to hit the rack hard at all to get the CB to hop. If you try to break harder, you'll lose the CB.

Why do I get the feeling you're talking about aiming rather than contacting?

Fred

 

[Eric.]

Realizing the difference between the flat break, and the "jump break," I can assure you that as the primary demonstrator, the breaks that I was demonstrating, and jump squatting were of the elevated jump break style, in the 22-24 mph range.

Fred

Then we are saying the same thing. Using a hard jump break, I can put a chalk mark on "the tail of the #9" which is undoubtly below center.


Eric

 

[Eric.]

Why do I get the feeling you're talking about aiming rather than contacting?

Fred

I'm talking about both aiming and contacting where you aim. The "1 tip above center" hit is the easy way of getting the CB to hop and stop for those that can't execute the other one. The rpoblem is that once you try to break harder, you risk losing the CB. I wish someone would try breaking one full tip above center and hit hard enough to open up a full rack of 15 balls, really spread them, and let me know what happens to your rock.


Eric

 

[Cornerman]

I'm talking about both aiming and contacting where you aim.

There aren't many people in the world that when breaking hard will hit where they're aiming.

I wish someone would try breaking one full tip above center and hit hard enough to open up a full rack of 15 balls, really spread them, and let me know what happens to your rock.


Eric

With a one full tip above center, the cueball goes forward. This was also clearly demonstrated. And yes, we're talking about hard breaks.

Fred

 

[Cornerman]

Then we are saying the same thing. Using a hard jump break, I can put a chalk mark on "the tail of the #9" which is undoubtly below center.


Eric

Then you'd definitely have to show me. I mean, we (I) was doing a specific demo to examine this, so you're experience isn't matching up the results we got.

Has anyone else done this type of specific testing and gotten results?

Fred

 

[cheesemouse]

Fred,
Just to demostrate to some of my friends(all good players) how different everybodys stroke is while breaking hard and trying to hit the cb the same I taped some carbon papers down on the cb's path to the rack. Break, look at the marks left on carbon paper, and draw your own conclusions...just some added info to the chalk mark left on the cb. One thing for sure, if your breaking hard it doesn't matter where you hit the cb or how level your stroke the cb is airborn most to the way to the rack...I'm not sure this applies to this thread but it is a 'demonstration' of sorts that is interesting to most players and it is cheap and easy to do...

 

[Eric.]

There aren't many people in the world that when breaking hard will hit where they're aiming.

-I'm only talking about the times when I do hit where I aimed, all others would be considered a mishit for testing purposes.


With a one full tip above center, the cueball goes forward. This was also clearly demonstrated. And yes, we're talking about hard breaks.

-With one full tip above center AND a hard hit, you're lucky if all the cb does is roll forward with force follow. The slightest off center hit on the head ball will send the cb flying.

Fred

Another example of the "1 tip above center" hit is like a move in One pocket where you need to knock your opponents ball into his hole and scratch to bring it back up. Assuming you can't follow the CB into the hole, you smash the ob into the hole with a high cb and send the cb off the table.


Eric

 

[Cornerman]

Another example of the "1 tip above center" hit is like a move in One pocket where you need to knock your opponents ball into his hole and scratch to bring it back up. Assuming you can't follow the CB into the hole, you smash the ob into the hole with a high cb and send the cb off the table.


Eric

Surely you've hit the break hard, but hit too high, and still kept the cueball on the table with no chance of it going off the table.

Fred

 

[Eric.]

Surely you've hit the break hard, but hit too high, and still kept the cueball on the table with no chance of it going off the table.

Fred

Only when I'm lucky enough to hit the headball 100% square will the CB stay on the table and just force follow into the rack area. If I hit too high AND hard with an off center headball hit, bad things happen.


Eric

 

[cheesemouse]

Fred,
I tried to reply to your pm but you have too empty out your pm's as you have maxed you storage space in the pm section....

 

[tedkaufman]

I'm with you on this, Fred.

But all anyone who disagrees with hitting the cueball slightly above center to squat it has to do is look at the cueball action on a perfectly hit break. It rebounds off the stack, and its direction--toward the headstring--is reversed by the slight follow, which causes it to stop dead. If the cueball had draw, its momentum (toward the headstring) would be exaggerated by draw spin (since momentum and spin are then working together) and it would shoot toward the head of the table.

 

[Eric.]

I'm with you on this, Fred.

But all anyone who disagrees with hitting the cueball slightly above center to squat it has to do is look at the cueball action on a perfectly hit break. It rebounds off the stack, and its direction--toward the headstring--is reversed by the slight follow, which causes it to stop dead. If the cueball had draw, its momentum (toward the headstring) would be exaggerated by draw spin (since momentum and spin are then working together) and it would shoot toward the head of the table.

When you hit below center, you are punching the CB, not draw stroking it. The CB hops towards the rack and picks up a little forward spin when the CB hits the headball with the CB slightly airborne. The action of the CB bouncing into the headball is what gives the CB topspin, to stop it when it bounces back.


Eric

 

[Hal]

I'm with you on this, Fred.

But all anyone who disagrees with hitting the cueball slightly above center to squat it has to do is look at the cueball action on a perfectly hit break. It rebounds off the stack, and its direction--toward the headstring--is reversed by the slight follow, which causes it to stop dead.

That's exactly what happens when I do it correctly.

 

[tedkaufman]

When you hit below center, you are punching the CB, not draw stroking it. The CB hops towards the rack and picks up a little forward spin when the CB hits the headball with the CB slightly airborne. The action of the CB bouncing into the headball is what gives the CB topspin, to stop it when it bounces back.


Eric

What you are describing, in terms of physics, is impossible. Reverse spin (and YES when you strike the cueball below its equator it produces backspin, no matter the method of stroke) does not magically change direction when the ball goes airborne and hits an object. If it hit a concrete block wall it would still rebound and still have whatever spin was imparted by cuetip, regardless of how it was stroked.

 

[Eric.]

What you are describing, in terms of physics, is impossible. Reverse spin (and YES when you strike the cueball below its equator it produces backspin, no matter the method of stroke) does not magically change direction when the ball goes airborne and hits an object. If it hit a concrete block wall it would still rebound and still have whatever spin was imparted by cuetip, regardless of how it was stroked.

Ted,

I'm no science geek but I believe it goes like this:

On a punch stroke, there is not much backspin on the CB. Some of the small backspin is lost from friction when the CB skips towards the rack, so there is minimal backspin when the CB arrives. When a hopping cb hits the rack, it climbs up the headball, giving it some forward roll (the same way a CB picks up sidespin on a cut shot) and at the same time, the mass of the rack causes the cb to bounce backwards.

To make a long type short, it works, I use it frequently and would be happy to show anyone in person.


Eric

 

[Matt_24]

That's one way of doing it, but the "1 tip above center" break has a limit to how hard you can hit it. You don't have to hit the rack hard at all to get the CB to hop. If you try to break harder, you'll lose the CB.

Ther is more than one way to get the CB to hop and stop.


Eric

We weren't talking about hitting them hard. We were just talking about hopping and stopping. It is fun to break like this sometimes, I don't find it consistent or effective. I've been working on breaking OFF the back rail after seeing Bob Vanover doing it (anyone know who he is??) on an Accu-Stats match and have really been pleasantly surprised with the cueball control and results.

 

[Eric.]

We weren't talking about hitting them hard. We were just talking about hopping and stopping. It is fun to break like this sometimes, I don't find it consistent or effective. I've been working on breaking OFF the back rail after seeing Bob Vanover doing it (anyone know who he is??) on an Accu-Stats match and have really been pleasantly surprised with the cueball control and results.

I'm not from Texas but I know Bob Vanover can smash the rack well. Nothing wrong with breaking off the head rail if you are making balls, IMO. Ask Bob where he is aiming to hit the CB...


Eric

 

[Matt_24]

I'm not from Texas but I know Bob Vanover can smash the rack well. Nothing wrong with breaking off the head rail if you are making balls, IMO. Ask Bob where he is aiming to hit the CB...


Eric

I can tell you it ain't a tip above center!