Petition for smoke-free APA Tournaments

[DoomCue]

But drinking doesn't affect the people around you.

Besides causing cancer, excessive inhalation of cigarette smoke contributes to anthracosis, the accumulation of carbon particles in your lungs, and the damage is irreparable.

Second-hand smoke also leads to greater chances of children becoming asthmatic and may cause SIDS in babies.

There are apparently a lot of people who actually believe the crap the media has to say.

First, alcohol is a factor in nearly half of all traffic fatalities. That's almost 100,000 deaths in the US per year. That's a damn sight bigger than "doesn't affect the people around you."

Second, the EPA report usually cited as being the "definitive" answer for those who believe 2nd hand smoke kills was denounced as a fraud by the federal court system, since the report used skewed numbers and deliberately ignored others.

Third, the aforementioned EPA report lists the likely casualties from 2nd hand smoke to be around 3,000 deaths per year. In other words, you are 30 times more likely to be killed by a drunk driver than by 2nd hand smoke. In fact, you're more likely to be killed in a fire, or by drowning, or in a fall. If this "definitive" report can only come up with 3,000 deaths per year, even with skewed numbers and faulty statistics, then I personally don't put much stock in it.

Be very wary of the word "may," especially when it's combined with statistics. Somehow, in the media, anything with that word attached becomes fact, when in reality, it's nothing more than the media doing their sworn job: to SCARE you into watching, reading, and listening to their bullshit.

Even with the numbers I posted above, I have no doubt that smoking kills. I also have no doubt that drinking kills. For me, the jury is still out on whether or not 2nd hand smoke kills. I think the great majority of damage done by smoking is self-inflicted, not through 2nd hand smoke. I would wager that of the two "evils," drinking affects far more lives than smoking does.

I have no opinion one way or the other on a smoking ban at APA Nationals. I was there, and I can understand non-smokers wanting a smoke-free environment since it was very smoky in both the Mini-Mania and main tournament rooms. I do, however, take exception to the notion that drinking is less damaging to others or that its effects are negligible. AA membership is in the millions for a reason. As the son and brother of alcoholics, I understand far too well the toll alcohol can take on those who become addicts, as well as the toll on their families and friends.

-djb

 

[Sweet Marissa]

post

I meant directly affects other people. Drinking impinges on others indirectly. I can relate to you: my father, with whom I am estranged, is an alcoholic, and my younger sister in a recovering alcoholic. I've also lost my share of friends due to alcohol and drug related incidents.

 

[dooziexx]

But drinking doesn't affect the people around you.

Besides causing cancer, excessive inhalation of cigarette smoke contributes to anthracosis, the accumulation of carbon particles in your lungs, and the damage is irreparable.

Second-hand smoke also leads to greater chances of children becoming asthmatic and may cause SIDS in babies.

The air outside in metropolitan areas are even worst than 2nd hand smoke. And yes drinking does affect the peeps around you, ie drunk driving accidents. Whether it directly or indirectly affects people is irrelevant. We can go on and on about this but bottom line is, smokers are are being discriminated against. With some cities banning smoking in public places, segregation is making a come-back. So we are back to square 1...

 

[Sweet Marissa]

The air outside in metropolitan areas are even worst than 2nd hand smoke. And yes drinking does affect the peeps around you, ie drunk driving accidents. Whether it directly or indirectly affects people is irrelevant. We can go on and on about this but bottom line is, smokers are are being discriminated against. With some cities banning smoking in public places, segregation is making a come-back. So we are back to square 1...

This isn't a case of discrimination. Non-smokers shouldn't be subjected to the consequences of someone else's decision to smoke.

 

[Side Pocket Kid]

How about we all just crack open the phone books and be creative with team names. Everyone go vote like 50 times each.

 

[dooziexx]

This isn't a case of discrimination. Non-smokers shouldn't be subjected to the consequences of someone else's decision to smoke.

Call it what you want, to me it is discrimation. Sure its not discrimination by color. If you dont want to be exposed to 2nd hand smoke, then dont hang around smokers... Plain and simple.. You have choices. Smokers shouldn't be subjected to the bitching and whining of non-smokers when they hang out with smokers.

 

[JrockJustin]

Second Hand smokes sucks...

I have never smoked and I never will...

Who cares about the statistics because that will be on-going battle. What I care about it the way I feel after being in a room with smokers. My chest hurts, I have a shortness of breath and my eyes water like the dickens! I mean, I have to feel like this because it's your right to smoke or not?

Not to mention the way the smoke stays in my clothes and my hair. What a horrible smell!

I don't care if you smoke or not, it is your choice 100%. If you want to destroy yourself go ahead, but please don't try and take me down with you...

 

[dooziexx]

I have never smoked and I never will...

Who cares about the statistics because that will be on-going battle. What I care about it the way I feel after being in a room with smokers. My chest hurts, I have a shortness of breath and my eyes water like the dickens! I mean, I have to feel like this because it's your right to smoke or not?

Not to mention the way the smoke stays in my clothes and my hair. What a horrible smell!

I don't care if you smoke or not, it is your choice 100%. If you want to destroy your go ahead, but please don't try and take me down with you...

You have a choice too; if hate 2nd hand smoke, then dont go to events that allow smoking or hang out with smokers!!! But dont for 1 second take away a smoker's choice to smoke because you despise it.

 

[JrockJustin]

You have a choice too; if hate 2nd hand smoke, then dont go to events that allow smoking or hang out with smokers!!! But dont for 1 second take away a smoker's choice to smoke because you despise it.

Did I take away the smokers choice? No I most certainly did not...

I just stated my opinion and I have the right to do that, don't I?

Read my last sentence for cryin out loud...

 

[dooziexx]

Did I take away the smokers choice? No I most certainly did not...

I just stated my opinion and I have the right to do that, don't I?

Read my last sentence for cryin out loud...

And I stated my opinion too...

 

[mapman72]

Drinking is not the same as smoking

There are apparently a lot of people who actually believe the crap the media has to say.

First, alcohol is a factor in nearly half of all traffic fatalities. That's almost 100,000 deaths in the US per year. That's a damn sight bigger than "doesn't affect the people around you."

Second, the EPA report usually cited as being the "definitive" answer for those who believe 2nd hand smoke kills was denounced as a fraud by the federal court system, since the report used skewed numbers and deliberately ignored others.

Third, the aforementioned EPA report lists the likely casualties from 2nd hand smoke to be around 3,000 deaths per year. In other words, you are 30 times more likely to be killed by a drunk driver than by 2nd hand smoke. In fact, you're more likely to be killed in a fire, or by drowning, or in a fall. If this "definitive" report can only come up with 3,000 deaths per year, even with skewed numbers and faulty statistics, then I personally don't put much stock in it.

Be very wary of the word "may," especially when it's combined with statistics. Somehow, in the media, anything with that word attached becomes fact, when in reality, it's nothing more than the media doing their sworn job: to SCARE you into watching, reading, and listening to their bullshit.

Even with the numbers I posted above, I have no doubt that smoking kills. I also have no doubt that drinking kills. For me, the jury is still out on whether or not 2nd hand smoke kills. I think the great majority of damage done by smoking is self-inflicted, not through 2nd hand smoke. I would wager that of the two "evils," drinking affects far more lives than smoking does.

I have no opinion one way or the other on a smoking ban at APA Nationals. I was there, and I can understand non-smokers wanting a smoke-free environment since it was very smoky in both the Mini-Mania and main tournament rooms. I do, however, take exception to the notion that drinking is less damaging to others or that its effects are negligible. AA membership is in the millions for a reason. As the son and brother of alcoholics, I understand far too well the toll alcohol can take on those who become addicts, as well as the toll on their families and friends.

-djb

Yes, drinking is bad and does affect others. But it's completely irrelevant in this context. When I play pool in a smoke filled pool hall, I am ingesting dangerous smoke and chemicals that cannot possibly be good for my body. For me to be affected by alcohol, someone has to make a decision to get behind the wheel of a car or do something equally as stupid and harm me. Any of us can be a victim of drinking and driving any time we're outside of our house or office. But, while we are at a restaurant, pool hall, bowling alley, etc., we are subjected to dangerous conditions because of people choosing to smoke around us. I mean really, if they came out and said that second hand smoke was killing people (FOR SURE), you fools would still find excuses and reasons that you should still be allowed to smoke indoors around others. Actually, you do it right now with yourselves. My relatives that smoked years ago didn't really know the dangers of smoking, but now smokers do and still choose to kill yourselves. I wish Snapshot and others cared about other peoples' personal freedoms as much as they cared about their own. What a selfish bunch!

 

[dooziexx]

My relatives that smoked years ago didn't really know the dangers of smoking, but now smokers do and still choose to kill yourselves.

Freedom of choice is a great thing!!! NO ONE is asking you to go to a smoked filled pool hall.. Its your choice to go there and expose yourself to it. If you dont like it, go somewhere else. Dont ruin it for others that love smoke filled rooms.

 

[JrockJustin]

The fight against smokers vs. non-smokers reminds me of the vietnam war...

 

[Snapshot9]

what we have to do ...

Did I take away the smokers choice? No I most certainly did not...

I just stated my opinion and I have the right to do that, don't I?

Read my last sentence for cryin out loud...

Is to be considerate of each other. I try to be a considerate smoker,
and I sit in smoking areas where it is designated, and I do not smoke
around non-smokers where they have voiced opinions that it really
bothers them. I went to BCA nationals, and yes smoking does ease
tensions somewhat, and it was difficult getting through some matches
without being able to have a smoke, but I went to a smokiing area
inbetween matches. To be totally black and white about the whole
issue does infringe on one or the other's rights to a certain degree.
I believe the government can dictate whether smoking is permitted
in governament buildings or not, but across the board smoking bans
for private businesses is not right, the individual owners should dictate
that, and then just let the chips fall where they may.

It's funny, but avid non-smokers will suffer through watching a good
pool match, be it a tournament or good money match, even complaining,
but they still stay there until the last ball drops. If it bothers them
so much, why don't they just leave to a more suitable environment
for them. We all have to moderate our behavior for others, but don't
say one thing and do another.

 

[dooziexx]

Is to be considerate of each other. I try to be a considerate smoker,
and I sit in smoking areas where it is designated, and I do not smoke
around non-smokers where they have voiced opinions that it really
bothers them. I went to BCA nationals, and yes smoking does ease
tensions somewhat, and it was difficult getting through some matches
without being able to have a smoke, but I went to a smokiing area
inbetween matches. To be totally black and white about the whole
issue does infringe on one or the other's rights to a certain degree.
I believe the government can dictate whether smoking is permitted
in governament buildings or not, but across the board smoking bans
for private businesses is not right, the individual owners should dictate
that, and then just let the chips fall where they may.

It's funny, but avid non-smokers will suffer through watching a good
pool match, be it a tournament or good money match, even complaining,
but they still stay there until the last ball drops. If it bothers them
so much, why don't they just leave to a more suitable environment
for them. We all have to moderate our behavior for others, but don't
say one thing and do another.

TAP! TAP! TAP!. Couldnt have said it better!

 

[mapman72]

What a doozie?

Freedom of choice is a great thing!!! NO ONE is asking you to go to a smoked filled pool hall.. Its your choice to go there and expose yourself to it. If you dont like it, go somewhere else. Dont ruin it for others that love smoke filled rooms.

If you love to play pool, you don't have a choice. I do not have a room large enough for a pool table in my place. I play in $1000 - $5000 added events usually. When was the last time they had one of those in a non-smoking venue? In the DC area, it's been almost a two years and the Planet Pool tour or any other tour that I'm aware of, does not have any immediate plans to go back to Montgomery County, the only non-smoking county around these parts. I can't blame the room owners because if they take a moral stand and decide to make their room smoke free, they will not be able to compete with other rooms that are smoke filled. It is hard enough to make money owning a pool room so you can't alienate a portion of your clientelle. They can just go down to the next pool hall that allows smoking. Now you're left with a room that went from making very little money, to not making money.

This issue calls for a little common sense. The only reason one is allowed to smoke inside bars and restaurants is because "that's how it's been for so long." Well, it's a good thing that we recognized our mistakes with civil rights, women's rights, and other travesties throughout the course of our history. Imagine if we would have said, "that's how it's been for so long, so why not continue with slavery." At times a culture wakes up and realizes that some of the things going on are just not right. Smoking in the presence of non-smokers is just not right. Your argument, "just don't go to smoke filled rooms" is similar to telling a black man in the 1950's that he shouldn't go to a "white" restaurant, and, if he did, then he would just have to suffer the consequences. Although I am not claiming that these issue is anywhere close to the importance of racial segregation, there are similarities.

So, I'm a lifetime non-smoker, throat cancer survivor (diagnosed at 28, lived with four smoking relatives until I was 22 - gee, I wonder how I got cancer?) who loves to play pool. I guess your answer to me is to quit playing pool if I have no smokeless options in my area. I'm glad smoking is so important to you that it should cost me my passion, the love of my life. Thank you for your compassion.

 

[JrockJustin]

If you love to play pool, you don't have a choice. I do not have a room large enough for a pool table in my place. I play in $1000 - $5000 added events usually. When was the last time they had one of those in a non-smoking venue? In the DC area, it's been almost a two years and the Planet Pool tour or any other tour that I'm aware of, does not have any immediate plans to go back to Montgomery County, the only non-smoking county around these parts. I can't blame the room owners because if they take a moral stand and decide to make their room smoke free, they will not be able to compete with other rooms that are smoke filled. It is hard enough to make money owning a pool room so you can't alienate a portion of your clientelle. They can just go down to the next pool hall that allows smoking. Now you're left with a room that went from making very little money, to not making money.

This issue calls for a little common sense. The only reason one is allowed to smoke inside bars and restaurants is because "that's how it's been for so long." Well, it's a good thing that we recognized our mistakes with civil rights, women's rights, and other travesties throughout the course of our history. Imagine if we would have said, "that's how it's been for so long, so why not continue with slavery." At times a culture wakes up and realizes that some of the things going on are just not right. Smoking in the presence of non-smokers is just not right. Your argument, "just don't go to smoke filled rooms" is similar to telling a black man in the 1950's that he shouldn't go to a "white" restaurant, and, if he did, then he would just have to suffer the consequences. Although I am not claiming that these issue is anywhere close to the importance of racial segregation, there are similarities.

So, I'm a lifetime non-smoker, throat cancer survivor (diagnosed at 28, lived with four smoking relatives until I was 22 - gee, I wonder how I got cancer?) who loves to play pool. I guess your answer to me is to quit playing pool if I have no smokeless options in my area. I'm glad smoking is so important to you that it should cost me my passion, the love of my life. Thank you for your compassion.

Tap Tap Tap!

 

[catscradle]

...dont for 1 second take away a smoker's choice ...

IMO.
The smoker has no particular right to smoke, however the room owner does have a right to determine whether his room is smoking or non-smoking. I don't like the state taking away the room owner's choice, but I don't want to hear smokers claiming their rights have been violated, they haven't been. It's about the room owners not the smokers.
That said, I sure do like the fact that I can drive 15 minutes to Massachusetts and play pool smokefree instead of being stuck with smelly clothing, irritated eyes, a sore throat, and the likely ill effects on my health in NH's rooms.

 

[Teddy Harris]

TAP! TAP! TAP!. Couldnt have said it better!

You must be a smoker!
I would prefer if all smokers would just go outside in the snow and sleet and catch pneumonia and die. LOL.

 

[Side Pocket Kid]

Honestly, I just can't stand cigarette smoke. Everytime I breathe in or smell it, it gives me a real headache and I cant concentrate. Suddenly good rolls turn bad. Im sure there are other ways to get the same relaxing feeling, like smokeless tobacco or something.

I try to be a considerate smoker

Thats cool and all, I guess I can respect him for being considerate. But there are just too many inconsiderates, and the rooms aren't well ventilated to get the fumes out. Any big tournaments like the Apa should ban smoking in the playing fields and limit it to other locations, like outside or the halls. People say that 2nd hand smoke wont be as big as to being addicted to 2-3 packs a day (or whatever it is) but if I play as much pool as I do, I get a lot of second hand smoke. I want to be playing as long as I can, and not have the doctor tell me that im going to have to avoid smoke.