L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
Admittedly I somewhat old school having used Le Pro tips in years past but can someone explain the pros and cons of a phenolic tip?
Phenolic cue tips
- Thread starter L.S. Dennis
- Start date
For breaking, and for jumping. That's it.
One con is that they are illegal according to some equipment specs and in some tournaments.
Another is that they damage the cue ball which is why they are forbidden by some equipment specs.
They are better at getting more energy into the cue ball than most or all leather tips.
So, if you don't mind screwing up your cue ball, have at it.
Another is that they damage the cue ball which is why they are forbidden by some equipment specs.
They are better at getting more energy into the cue ball than most or all leather tips.
So, if you don't mind screwing up your cue ball, have at it.
L.S. Dennis
Well-known member
Thanks what you say makes sense!
I’ve mentioned this story before but it’s kind of interesting and I think bares repeating.
Years ago pre 911 I had a job at United Airlines working the night shift. My duties there much of the times required me to be down on the ramp with the aircraft.
One night I notice some scrap aircraft tire laying on the side of the ramp so a took a piece of it home to be used as a cue tip. I cut off a small chunk of it, attached it to one of my spare shafts, put the shaft in my lathe and with a razor blade knife formed a perfect crowned pool cue tip. What could possible go wrong, a hard rubber tip that would potentiall be good forever and never need chalk and that would give action on the cue ball that would make Earl envious! What’s not to like!
I took the shaft off the lathe and it was now time for the road test on my table. How did it come out, well the cue ball did some crazy uncontrollable things, and let’s just say that some ideas are best left on the side of the road.
Suffice as to say a new box of Le Pros arrived in the mail next week!
There are some new clear polycarbonate tips out on the market now. Don't know anybody that's tried one.
For break cues, I still prefer something like a Triangle tip, a hard leather non-layered tip with a decent scuff and shape- I find control of the CB on a break more difficult with phenolic material, and that is a big part of the break. I am old school and not a jumper, more masse and kicks to get out of trouble- so no comment from me on jump cue tips.
I do have a white diamond tip on my Andy Gilbert jump/break cue-- seems to grab the CB a little better than phenolics that I have tried - not sure what material is used for the White Diamond tip - it is still experimental for me.
I do have a white diamond tip on my Andy Gilbert jump/break cue-- seems to grab the CB a little better than phenolics that I have tried - not sure what material is used for the White Diamond tip - it is still experimental for me.
I had a white diamond on a break cue once. I really did like it. The only reason my current jump break cue has a phenolic tip is because that's what came with it. But I will say if I ever change that, I'll put a white diamond on it.
I can't remember how long ago it was but my cue mechanic at the time replaced my tip/ferrule on my J/B solid maple shaft with an 1.25" length of phenolic. It's shape is closer to beach ball then anything else. Although I can if I try, it generally doesn't provide much CB spin. Which is great for controling both the break and jumps.
Fast forward a couple of decades and I'm experimenting with breakers and jumpers. I find although the white diamond tips are near enough to phenolic in terms of power transmission that I honestly can't tell the difference. They also have the ability to apply heavy spin to the CB. Now maybe that's just a matter of the freshly shaped surface, I don't know. I do know that it was a bit of a learning curve for me to get used to that potential action.
Moving forward I will also drop the use of phenolic. When I was young I didn't realize the damage I was causing.
I have yet to cause any damage to a cue ball with a phenolic tip. But I only break at 18 to 20 mile an hour.... TOPS.
Far more damage is caused by me when the cue ball leaves the table... Ends up hitting tables, chairs, concrete floor....
I don't take this the wrong way, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but I fail to understand how a phenolic tip hitting a phenolic ball does any damage. After all... Phenolic cue ball hits phenolic object ball in the rack. Yet I've never heard of any damage of ball-striking ball. And both (tip and ball), as far as I can imagine, have the same contact area when they hit each other. Unless phenolic tips are actually harder then phenolic balls, I am a bit skeptical.
Far more damage is caused by me when the cue ball leaves the table... Ends up hitting tables, chairs, concrete floor....
I don't take this the wrong way, I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but I fail to understand how a phenolic tip hitting a phenolic ball does any damage. After all... Phenolic cue ball hits phenolic object ball in the rack. Yet I've never heard of any damage of ball-striking ball. And both (tip and ball), as far as I can imagine, have the same contact area when they hit each other. Unless phenolic tips are actually harder then phenolic balls, I am a bit skeptical.
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i couldnt notice damage to the cueball when i used a phenolic tip
maybe i just wasnt hitting it fast enough. come acoss plenty of half moon marked cueballs, but the ones i played with the damage was very minimal if any, coming from a machinist thats trained to notice surface flaws
maybe i just wasnt hitting it fast enough. come acoss plenty of half moon marked cueballs, but the ones i played with the damage was very minimal if any, coming from a machinist thats trained to notice surface flaws
Pin
Registered
A long, long time ago I used a phenolic tip with chalk on my home table, and I used to leave little circular chalk marks that contained little parallel striation lines scored into the ball. (This was a standard Aramith.)
No idea what speed I broke at, but occasionally, when I hit them right, the ringing would hurt my ear on the cue-side of my head. That was how I measured whether I hit them well.
It was just a phenolic tip, rather than a combined tip-ferrule, and probably once a week it'd come flying off while breaking and I'd have to go crawling around the room looking for it.
Maybe it boils down to the baseline we're working from. I have an "experienced" CB that you wouldn't notice phenolic damage on. What was my literally brand new Duramith CB has suffered a tiny knick that you can catch you nail on, after being struck with a phenolic tipped jump cue. That CB has never seen the floor, and hasn't been struck by anyone while not in my line of sight.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that phenolic tips could potentially make a CB exploded or anything of that nature. Just that they can damage the CB, and I've witnessed it happen.
Again, I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I just don't understand how it happens. Unless the phenolic tip is actually harder than the material the phenolic balls are made from. I've never seen ball to ball contact cause any damage , or even heard of it happening . I sure like to know the science behind it. Dr. Dave?
I'm stupid in such matters, but I could hazard a unsubstantiated guess... Maybe when striking the CB with the edge of the phenolic tip compresses...? The edge of the tip I mean, not the CB. While under compression, maybe that increases it's density thereby increasing it's ability to score the CB...?
I really don't know. I think it simpler to assume that some phenolics are simply harder than the CB resin.
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Those bulletproof ones? Bleh. I tried one that a cuemaker buddy of mine installed, he did not like it either.
A hard pressed leather tip, White Diamond or the Samsara one are some of the best ones. Any just simple plastic thing I tried are just too hard or feel like crap.
Yes the tips were as hard as the balls, and yes there have been many cases of cracks showing up when using one. I'm sure if you play at places enough you will see the cueball with short lines in the finish or small U shaped lines.
Here is a good example from a 2015 post https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/damage-to-cue-ball.410717/
Maybe corner man with his knowledge in thermoplastics can add to this thread
Agreed on the white diamond. But did the polycarbonate at least feel similar to a phenolic? Or was it something all its own?
Add........
Looked them up. Bulletproof does not say they are polycarbonate.
"BCA Rules state “The cue tip must be composed of leather, fibrous, or pliable material.” Our tips are made from a pliable polymer that is much softer than the pool balls, wont scratch, dent or damage the cue ball and can be scuffed to a fibrous texture and feel"
Might not be to your liking, but might be a good fit for some. I don't think they'll jump better than a white diamond. But I don't know that. I guess I'll just have to try one.
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