Picked up my Table Today! Table Mechanics Please read.

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Scottster

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Hey guys
I just picked up my antique table. Initially I thought it was a Brunswick "Regina". However after more research I have found out it is either a Brunswick "Coreno" or "Reno". It is a 9 foot Pool Table. I pulled the felt of of one of the rails and it has "Master Fast" K66 rails on it.
I thought that Brunwicks had K55's, and the K66's will make the table area bigger right? Which brings up my first question. Should I switch back to K55's (super Speed) or Stay with the K66 profile ( I will use Artemis if this is the case). I also want the table to play as well (and true) as possible, and was hoping to tighten the pockets to 4.5 (if not a lil tighter). Would anyone recommend a custom cushion link to do this, or use shims. I am a one pocket player, and am afraid that if I go with a longer cushion it will allow for "un-natural" banks. I dont want this. I am really hoping to get this table to play as close to a GC as I can. I am going to use Simonis 860 in Tournament Blue for the felt.
Thanks in advance for your time,
 
I'm not a table mech BUT get an accurate measurement of the table dimensions from cushion lip to cushion lip. It should be 50"X100" if the cushions on it now are the correct ones. If there is a difference like 1/4" or more then the cushions are probably wrong.

Terry
 
Scottster said:
... it has "Master Fast" K66 rails on it.
I had master fast k66, they play too fast compared to every cushion I have seen. I like rubber that, more closely, represents what I may see at pool rooms, for competition.

...I thought that Brunwicks had K55's, and the K66's will make the table area bigger right? Which brings up my first question. Should I switch back to K55's (super Speed) or Stay with the K66 profile... I know GC's have k55, don't know about the others. I was under the impression the geometry of of the k55 and k66 was different. Meaning, the rail will sit higher, or lower, depending on which one used. Obviously, this would be undesirable so the correct profile must be used. Better check to be sure they are interchangable...

I also want the table to play as well (and true) as possible, and was hoping to tighten the pockets to 4.5 (if not a lil tighter). Would anyone recommend a custom cushion link to do this, or use shims... To do it right, you need to add compound miter cut wood shims to the rail to lengthen it "naturally". Then add a facing/shim for protection. I recommend recutting the "cut" of the pocket on the wood shim to compensate for the tighter pocket. There is a formula for the angle of the pocket depending on the mouth and throat "tightness". I don't know it off hand, sorry...

...am afraid that if I go with a longer cushion it will allow for "un-natural" banks. I dont want this... Shimming is the same thing as adding longer cushions. Just a poor/lazy mans way of doing it. Either method will not affect banks if they are done right. Even if they are not, you will nver notice, in banks, since it will be the points that are affected.

My advice would be to shim it with pocket facings and not worry about the "cut" unless you go tighter. To get 4.5", you need two 1/8" and one 1/16" facing on each side. With the cloth, this will be, slightly, tighter than 4.5". I would also recommend having a look at Championship rubber before you purchase Artemis. I went with ProAm since it was advertised as a bit slower. But all their cushions sound top quality and the price is REAL good. I paid $50 for the set of six. They play real consistant and I have no complaints, yet...
Click to expand...

Good Luck...
 
Here is some pics of mine. 4 3/8 (4.375) inch pocket :)

I broke and ran my very first game after setting the table up! Always a nice sign of things to come ;)



4.375.jpg


2 balls.jpg
 
You said "ANTIQUE" table. Do you mean it's a T-rail?

I'm a table Mechanic but when I run into Gold Crowns the cusions are never bad so we don't mess with them. So I'm not too sure about them. But I always thought they were K-66s.

Also you have to remember the Gold Crowns are very different than the rest of the Brunswick tables.

And if you want to talk about Tight pockets you should have seen this Gold Crown 3 we set up for a guy who is playing in the IPT. He had a Gold Crown 3 table. But he bought it used and it ended up with Brunswick Medalist slate. The pockets where super deep. And he had it the pockets shimmed super tight. I don't recall how tight but probably had a better chance of sinking a Pool ball into a snooker pocket.

Also looking at your photo I noticed I could see your carpet. Is that unbacked slate?
 
smittie1984 said:
Also looking at your photo I noticed I could see your carpet. Is that unbacked slate?
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It was unbacked but I rebuilt the frame and backed the slate. It has 1 inch backing but it is straight cut (90 degrees) unlike most other baked slate which is angled.

The origional setup had the frame and aprons all one unit and the slate dropped in it. This was fine, I guess, but you had to staple the cloth on a horizontal surface which would have been difficult to stretch it properly. So I rebuilt it to the classic backed style.
 
Backed slate is diffenetly better. But I love doing Knockdowns or Move jobs with non-backed slate because I don't have to pull staples. (That is going to drive me insane)

Another question. Is it a 3peice or 1peice? I have never seen a Brunswick 1 peice (Now that I said it I'll get one tommorow) but the way you described how the cloth is stapled it sounds like a 1 peice. And I have never seen a Brunswick table (Backed or not) that dropped in like that. Does it say Brunswick anywhere on the table?

Now if your like it that's good. That's all that matters. I'm just curious because I might run into a table like this on the road and I'm always trying to learn new.

And a suggestion for the site since they are revamping it (I know I'm new but thought it might help). How about a seperate sub-forum where you can ask Table mechanics about your table?
 
smittie1984 said:
Another question. Is it a 3peice or 1peice? I have never seen a Brunswick 1 peice (Now that I said it I'll get one tommorow) but the way you described how the cloth is stapled it sounds like a 1 peice. And I have never seen a Brunswick table (Backed or not) that dropped in like that. Does it say Brunswick anywhere on the table?
Click to expand...

I think you have me mixed up with the OP :)

To answer your queries- It is 3 piece, it is not a Brunswick. It is made by "National Shuffleboard and Billiards Company".
 
Thanks guys, "OP" would be me.... "Original Poster" yes, it is a brunswick, it has "T" rails and is backed 3 piece slate.
When you mention "Compound Miter Cut" do you mind elaborating?
 
Scottster said:
When you mention "Compound Miter Cut" do you mind elaborating?
Click to expand...

A coumpound miter cut, cuts two angles. If you look at your pocket openings, you will see an angle cut from left to righ and top to bottom.

You need to match the vertical angle to whatever the angle is now. Then you need to change the the other to be bigger in the front and smaller in the back. This will make, more or less, a straight cut pocket. Like the Diamond Pro Cut pockets (or whatever they call it).

Even though Diamonds have tight pockets, they accept well hit balls because the angle is almost parrallel. ie the mouth is 4.5 and the throat is 4.5 (4.5 is a guess, I don't know how tight they are). The tighter a pocket gets, the more parallel it needs to be. Otherwise, balls hit hard, and cleanly, into the facing will spit back out unless they have some "helper" english on them. IMO, a ball that hits the facing should drop, not spit back out.

Get some hard wood and figuire out the compound angle and slice up some shims where the front is about 1/8 inch and the back is about 1/16 inch. Glue/screw them on then put a shim/facing on to protect the wood. Thats how it is done and I believe Ernesto Domingez (sp) does em that way, as well. This would also require a new set of cushions...

However, I would just do it the easy way and stack facings :)
 
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