Pool hall story from St Louis Post Dispatch

alstl

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some of you may find it interesting.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...47?OpenDocument&highlight=2,"pool"+AND+"hall"

A request to the Florissant City Council for a special use permit for an 18-table pool hall went down last week like a cue ball sinking on the first break.

Although no formal vote was taken on the request by Harold Johnson, Mayor Robert Lowery vowed that he would veto any approval.

Lowery, a law enforcement veteran and the former commander of the Greater St. Louis Major Case Squad, said he believed pool halls are bad news.

"These were always on the front part of our burners as a gathering place for various criminal activities," Lowery said.

The facility was proposed for 13133 New Halls Ferry Road

Most of the council members seemed to agree, saying that such a facility was unfair to residents in the area, nor did they feel comfortable with the proposed hours of operation or the owner's plan to run league competitions.

"I just do not think that the residents in that area want this type of establishment," said Councilwoman Geri Debo, 4th Ward. "I just do not think it is good for the neighborhood."

The council moved to postpone a vote until Johnson could present required letters of approval from three churches near the proposed location. By Florissant statute, any pool facility located within 200 feet of a place of worship must obtain a letter of approval from the congregation.

Councilman Dan Sullivan, 6th Ward, spoke in favor of the request.

"I think (pool) is a great sport. It brings in good people. I look forward to it," he said. "A good pool hall, if run right, is not a problem."


I was in Harold's place yesterday, was surprised to see him taking the tables apart to put them in storage. I hope he gets the new location approved, he is a good guy and from what I've seen runs a good pool hall.
 
The council moved to postpone a vote until Johnson could present required letters of approval from three churches near the proposed location. By Florissant statute, any pool facility located within 200 feet of a place of worship must obtain a letter of approval from the congregation.
Click to expand...
Church of the Good Hustler ;):)
 
"These were always on the front part of our burners as a gathering place for various criminal activities," Lowery said.


Funny I thought this would be a benefit for the police.

There is bad things and bad deals going on all over towns not just in bars and pool rooms. Its funny how most bowling alleys never seem to have problems
getting permits yet I have seen more trouble and questionable activity
in and outside of bowling lanes.
 
Harold is a good Man & Businessman.

I've known Harold for over 40 years and can honestly say he is a man of his word. He is a very good businessman but I'm afraid he is running up hill here in the St. Louis area. I tried for 3 years to open a room in St. Louis County and went before all the Kings & Queens in their little municipalities and tried to kiss their ass. The only time I came close was when they had my hands tied behind my back and I would have almost gone broke within 6 months for sure. Thank God I gave up and shortly after came up with the idea that started my direct mail advertising business. That was '91.
I don't think a "Pool Room" CAN be successful anymore. The only ones that seem to stay in business are really Bar/Restaurants with some Pool Tables, Not Pool Rooms. I was told years ago (by a very successful restaurant oporator) that "The restaurant business is so Cut Throat that if you bought your napkins from the wrong place, it could be the difference between making it or going broke. - NO THANKS!

TY & GL
 
Last edited:
alstl said:
Some of you may find it interesting.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...47?OpenDocument&highlight=2,"pool"+AND+"hall"

A request to the Florissant City Council for a special use permit for an 18-table pool hall went down last week like a cue ball sinking on the first break.

Although no formal vote was taken on the request by Harold Johnson, Mayor Robert Lowery vowed that he would veto any approval.

Lowery, a law enforcement veteran and the former commander of the Greater St. Louis Major Case Squad, said he believed pool halls are bad news.

"These were always on the front part of our burners as a gathering place for various criminal activities," Lowery said.

The facility was proposed for 13133 New Halls Ferry Road

Most of the council members seemed to agree, saying that such a facility was unfair to residents in the area, nor did they feel comfortable with the proposed hours of operation or the owner's plan to run league competitions.

"I just do not think that the residents in that area want this type of establishment," said Councilwoman Geri Debo, 4th Ward. "I just do not think it is good for the neighborhood."

The council moved to postpone a vote until Johnson could present required letters of approval from three churches near the proposed location. By Florissant statute, any pool facility located within 200 feet of a place of worship must obtain a letter of approval from the congregation.

Councilman Dan Sullivan, 6th Ward, spoke in favor of the request.

"I think (pool) is a great sport. It brings in good people. I look forward to it," he said. "A good pool hall, if run right, is not a problem."


I was in Harold's place yesterday, was surprised to see him taking the tables apart to put them in storage. I hope he gets the new location approved, he is a good guy and from what I've seen runs a good pool hall.
Click to expand...


Isn't a poolhall a place of worship too? I know I've prayed to the pool gods, and worship the green felt.
 
We had that same problem here when our pool hall open up a few years ago (including the church issue). They got approved by having a restaurant, and not claiming to be a pool hall.
 
Pool Halls

It is that sort of mentality in America that will always keep pool from progressing into a recognized and accepted sport. That is another issue, is it a game or is it a sport. They have been trying for twenty years to have the Olympic commitee classify it as a recognized sport and hopefully at sometime in the future it can be a part of the Olympic Game. In a few weeks, the World
Games are starting in Germany for all sports that aren't apart of the normal Olympics. For the first time billiards are going to be played at this venue, I believe snooker,carom ball and 9 ball will be played.
With the current mentality in most of America in relation to pool and pool halls as being something evil and a breeding ground for criminals is an outlook that will be very hard to overcome.
In the 1800's and early 1900's billiards and snooker were thriving and in some cases pool halls with over 100 tables and bleacher seating for the sweaters. Where did it all go wrong. First world war or the Second or was it the Great Depression which forced many unemployed family men into the pool halls to try and hustle a buck or two so their family might eat that night.
What's more of a travesty that in the land of the free, the land of opportunity, that you would need the the permission of a church to open your legal business, maybe permission isn't the right word, my English sucks worse and worse, but what happened to seperation between Church and State and all that bullshit. It would appear that it is easier to open an adult book store aka porn shop or table dance bar then it is to open a billiard establishment. What happened!

no-sho
P.S. excuse the bla bla bla
 
Is it possible for the pool players to get united and raise the money to get the American Taliban Mayors/leaders voted out of the office?Well it may be my fantasy...
Vagabond
 
no-sho said:
(snip) what happenned

no-sho
P.S. excuse the bla bla bla
Click to expand...

What happened?....property rights in the USA have effectively been shit down the drain. It is now OK---nah---it is now GOOD to hire the thugs in the local government to use their guns to take over your neighbors' property for whatever. The main excuses are for the children or for increased tax revenue.

On a lessor scale, you can hire them to "allow" your neighbors to do some free, non-violent activity, by jumping through the power freaks' hoops. Pool halls make for easy control, as the statement by the clueless cop demonstrates. He doesn't even see the true violence enacted by the city council. Blind and violent, a bad combination.

It usually starts with an issue such as anti-smoking laws that use violence to prevent a business owner from servicing his customers as they wish. Then it progresses from there until there's no stopping it.

And, to make matters worse, one can hire the men with guns to take your neighbors' money and build monsterous, unprofitable sports complexes that actually compete with other true entertainment businesses in the area. Our county just finished a complex costing over $300 million!!! These funds are no longer available for honest businesses. These complexs lose more than they bring in....der.

The reasons these takings are loved by the people is because the people are conned into believing that restricting or promoting things is the way to happiness. What is forgotten is that when the govt. controls things, they are restricting the freedom and stealing the property of real, flesh and blood individuals. Mob rule, aka Democracy, provides the moral underpinning which relieves the feelings of guilt. That a church helps with the violent control simply provides the god-like means to foolishly decieve oneself that the guilt must not be real. Honest business people are subordinated to the "will of the people."

The recent Supreme court decision, Kelo vs. New London, was probably the final nail in the coffin. http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/04-108.ZS.html

Though, some are fighting back: http://www.pledgebank.com/LostLibHotel

Jeff Livingston
 
Harold Johnson

What a tragedy if Harold doesn't get his license. He is as fine a human being as I have ever known and would be an asset to any community. His previous room was not in the nicest of neighborhoods yet I stopped there often and thoroughly enjoyed myself. I furthermore always highly recommended it as a place for players to go when in St. Louis.
Our sport sorely needs the Harold Johnsons of the billiard world and I sure hope he has some luck.
Harold, listen, man if you need me to go before council just say the word. I don't know whether that would help but I'm certainly willing.

Grady
 
Sounds like there are some pretty narrow-minded people running St. Louis. They need to move into the 21st century!

Sarge
 
Sarge said:
Sounds like there are some pretty narrow-minded people running St. Louis. They need to move into the 21st century!

Sarge
Click to expand...


Are u the same Sarge who does Trick shots and lives in Idaho?
Vagabond
 
Mayor Clueless about St. Louis Pool Halls

This guy has no clue what he's talking about. I grew up in St. Louis and have been to every pool hall there. Never have I seen anything close to what he describes. Even the old rooms plain jane serious rooms like Kirkwood Kue, never had any trouble or heard of any. Started gong there at 12. If it's safe enough for a 12 year old kid to go to alone, it's safe for anyone.
 
I grew up in Florissant. It used to be a great place to live and raise the kids. All the upwardly mobile familys started leaving Florissant in the 80,s, myself included. Florissant has become more of a Senior retirement community more or less. This is where the Politics comes in play... they certainly do Not want the Seniors to pack their bags and leave town because of the percieved notion that a pool hall would bring in crime. JMO :eek:
 
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