Pool halls that discourage play

[Jedi V Man]

If this horse gets beaten anymore it may come back to life.

On a side note, since someone mentioned them, I must say I would rather spread the balls on my floor and play there than on a Diamond table.

It aint they are tight, which they are, I just personally think they play like shit.

 

[cuejoey]

Very well said. Unfortunately many of the comments posted got into some off topic remarks, myself as well. A lot of fruitless analogies, arrogant comments and fallaciously expert advice spent when the whole point was quite simple;

1. Shim one or two tables to please those that want to practice (even if it is a crap job, in everyone’s minds they are just practice tables.)
2. Do not shim or alter quality tables (EXCLUDING THE OTHER TABLES DESCRIBED IN THE FIRST STATEMENT - this is for those that will try to find contradiction). If you want tighter pockets then buy from the manufacturer that way. They know what they are doing as countless hours of engineering time were spent to ensure consistency of play. “Use standard manufactures products when maintaining tables.”

I originally posted this because of frustrations that I have had and others who were afraid to say anything. I would not have wasted my time with this issue if I did not care about this pool hall. It's a great place and I want it to stay that way. Unfortunately this all happened after the owner had passed away. He once told me that in-as-much as he would love to make the tables tougher; he would never do it as it would be foolish on his part. It would kill the fun and excitement of play. He was a very good businessman. The place used to be packed.

I just wanted other pool hall owners to understand possible ramifications before they make a decision like this. Not to dictate, just to inform. Again, thanks for your post.

right on Pete

 

[pete lafond]

Hey Pete, and Cardiac Kid...

So you don't like tight pockets? Or is that you don't like playing a good game of pool? Pool is a great game, being a complainer won't help. I read that you said Diamond tables are the best? Well in that case Pete, you should buy one for you and the other whiner.

Mike Sigel once said the tables in the VIP room play so easy that a 100 Ball run isn't hard to do as long as you focus.

I've heard through the grape vine that the pockets will all redone, and all tables will have 760 simonis. If you want to play pool and make your game better... play on the Gandys, that's a mans table.

Mike Segal said that years ago before the tables were in their current state. In which case this applies to all Gold Crowns ever sold and never modified. The only other time he has played at our place has been on newly re-clothed tables and of coarse their easy then. Also, back then he should have been able to run 100; he's a pro.

 

[poolshark52]

ok...this is the real scoop on this room and the tables

i played in this room from day one...at the time i was the best 14.1 player in the city after mike and larry moved...after 4-5 yrs ronny was the best all around player.
we got a new back room with ...vip...6 new gold crowns...it was heaven...all tables were the same...played great...all the same...no problems.
we had lots of great tournys and never had a guy say that the tables were to easy...unless they lost....but that is the way some players think.

well i gamble pretty high and had a game 3 or 4 times a wk and we played for thousands...i played this guy...my friend still...150 to 45. i won most of the time...ran hundreds and 200s every day almost...the conditions were good and i was thinkin right...
well the owner got killed and a new manager took over....then the joss tour had 2 stops a yr and ...this new manager lisitend to all his new pro player friends about how the tables were to loose for them...and guess what...all the guys that played there every day, even in the slow summer ...got shimed tables in the back room....
now im not saying that they were too tight...i still ran a 100 once in a while but thats me....the other guys that could make 20 or 30 went to 5-10....now that is discouraging! and as the cloth wore it got worse...for all of us...50 was like running 200...couldnt hit a break shot off the rail....no sliding the ball in on a rail shot....oh you could hit the balls in the pockets if they wernt on the rails but that had to be done perferct too....not much fun...and i lost my ass to this guy....just couldnt fade the spot any more ...it took away too many shots.
i really think the pockets arnt shimmed right or they are worn ...i really dont know...i live in flordia now and play only on shimmed tables...but the balls will go even with them being a smaller target....so that is my story...i sympatise with these guys but...and they will never get better playing those tables ...i dont care how hard you try...if a ball wont go in the pocket with good speed forget it ....just my opinion...

 

[pete lafond]

Thanks Pat. I have not heard from you for some time now. Hope all is going well.

When especially you and Ron and Lyn can't run balls on these tables, something is wrong. I run more balls consistantly on a Diamond than I do on these tables. And as you know Diamond's are a little tighter than Brunswick Gold Crowns. I just also found out that the balls the pool manager purchased were Aramith oversize balls. I am not sure if you remember when everyone thought that these balls were larger and we were told that we were full of crap.

The test was as follows;
We racked a set of the Aramith and placed a Centenial in the center. We rattled the rack with the balls in it while holding them tight. The Centenial rattled around in a circle with a lot of room. We next moved the Centenial from the middle to the side and argain held the balls tight in the rack. The same occured. The Centenial moved around freely because it was much smaller.

Next, we were told that there were no shims. The tables were apart for new cloth the other day. I asked what the wide rubber parts on the face of the pockets were. I was told that they were called pocket faces, not shims. I checked them out and found them to be much thicker than normal. The thicker the rubber, the more bounce it will produce. This now means that the ball will bounce more inside the pocket which will minimize the possiblity of dropping. This is why you can hit a ball inside the pocket without touching a rail and it won't drop.

Finally, add size to the object ball, make the pocket smaller and add more rubber in the pocket to enhance the bounce - what would you expect? The pocket hole, where the ball drops into the table, becomes further away making the ball less likely to drop. I played in the straight league and beat a guy 100 to 7. He made balls that should have gone in but they just would not drop. This guy is good for at least a rack and a half. I really felt bad for him. When I got to a shot that would require me to hit the ball with a little firmness, I avoided it and placed safe or opted for another shot. Pool is percentages and these tables change those percentages.

 

[cuejoey]

Thanks Pat. I have not heard from you for some time now. Hope all is going well.

When especially you and Ron and Lyn can't run balls on these tables, something is wrong. I run more balls consistantly on a Diamond than I do on these tables. And as you know Diamond's are a little tighter than Brunswick Gold Crowns. I just also found out that the balls the pool manager purchased were Aramith oversize balls. I am not sure if you remember when everyone thought that these balls were larger and we were told that we were full of crap.

The test was as follows;
We racked a set of the Aramith and placed a Centenial in the center. We rattled the rack with the balls in it while holding them tight. The Centenial rattled around in a circle with a lot of room. We next moved the Centenial from the middle to the side and argain held the balls tight in the rack. The same occured. The Centenial moved around freely because it was much smaller.

Next, we were told that there were no shims. The tables were apart for new cloth the other day. I asked what the wide rubber parts on the face of the pockets were. I was told that they were called pocket faces, not shims. I checked them out and found them to be much thicker than normal. The thicker the rubber, the more bounce it will produce. This now means that the ball will bounce more inside the pocket which will minimize the possiblity of dropping. This is why you can hit a ball inside the pocket without touching a rail and it won't drop.

Finally, add size to the object ball, make the pocket smaller and add more rubber in the pocket to enhance the bounce - what would you expect? The pocket hole, where the ball drops into the table, becomes further away making the ball less likely to drop. I played in the straight league and beat a guy 100 to 7. He made balls that should have gone in but they just would not drop. This guy is good for at least a rack and a half. I really felt bad for him. When I got to a shot that would require me to hit the ball with a little firmness, I avoided it and placed safe or opted for another shot. Pool is percentages and these tables change those percentages.

What a mess.....sounds like you need a new owner....

 

[pete lafond]

What a mess.....sounds like you need a new owner....

Actually she's a wonderful person. And the pool hall is also a terrific community of very nice people. She had trusted a manager to run the place after her husband passed as she was not familiar with the business. This manager listened to the pros that played in the Josss tour. They said the tables were easy. They were easy because the cloth was alway brand new as it was replaced each time the tour stopped. (We were never allowed to play nine ball on the new cloth until after the tournamnet was over - amazing that tour player were more important than regulars).

I would really like to see the guy that works during the daytime have more say in the business. He is very sharp especially when it comes to pool. I am hoping that things will get fixed.

 

[Wall of Fame]

I would like to know if anyone can tell the size of the corner pocket on a goldcrown? I seem to think it should be 5 inches or more.

 

[poolshark52]

nice to hear from you too pete...ill be up in a wk or so...ill see ya at the room...pat....ps...it is a great room and a great owner...if things need fixin im sure she will get it done! and pete...do ya ever get in my area ? i know allllllll the good spots now! get my email from donny b. see ya