Pool league rant kinda.....

[8onthebreak]

The more leagues I play, the more frustrating they become. Here is the scenario:

team A is highly ranked in the league with high handicaps (rightfully so) team B is much lower with low handicaps. Team A has players on it, but league guys who play in a few tourneys a year. Team B is just league players, but they play smart and can put balls together.

The handicap is so high, that you can win your games and the team still loses, or win all but 1 of your games and the team loses.

POINTS: Great for team B, they played smart enough to win rounds which is good. However one on one in a set, they would never be victorious.

As for team A, what are they gaining?! This is my struggle......a player goes 6-0 with one break and run, grinds out the other matches and wins them, but the team loses. It is a bummer of night.

I guess after typing this non-sense, I realize that the handicap (the hardest thing in the world to get right) generally favors the weaker players, and there really is no upside for the better players.

Mike

I've been playing various leagues for 25 years...and I find the handicaps to almost always favor the better players. Here's why...the better players tend to ...find a way to win. They can out think the lower player, and with good cue ball control and good strategy, and a good working knowledge of safeties, the lower player should feel hopeless against a much better player.

In a league with the 17 point system, if you are giving up 12 points, you have much better players than the other team. Your players got rated high because they win a lot. The other players got their ratings cuz they lose a lot. This alone is an advantage to the better team...because winning is a habit, and losing is a habit. Weaker teams have an inherent lack of confidence. Confidence is powerful aid in a match. Better team should have that going for them.

Your better players, should be crushing their opponents, not just winning. If you leave your opponent with 4 balls on the table, it's 17-3...this should happen at least twice in every match. Hat puts you ahead 16 points AFTER THE HANDICAP. now out of the other 3 games left...lets say you lose one 5-17...you gave back 12 points, so your up 4 points. Last 2 games, you can win one and lose one and you still win the match.

You've won 3 games, had not a single break n run or ERO, and you still win.
How are you suggesting that you need to win 4 games?
The only way that could be is if you're going to the wire on every game that you are winning...your players must demand more from themselves. They must play to their ability...not just play for a win. If you are playing a player of a lower caliber, you must leave them with some balls on the table...because if you don't...that means that you are giving them like 2-3 turns up to the table...which is poor playing on the better players part...whether they win or lose.

There is of course ...the sandbagging that can come into play...however, people that sandbag have a weak mindset and therefore are still easy to beat in my personal experience.

Play a professional pool player, and get any spot you want, and see that what I'm telling you is correct. They'll come out on top almost no matter what.

It's really all mindset, in my opinion.

 

[lorider]

I've been playing various leagues for 25 years...and I find the handicaps to almost always favor the better players. Here's why...the better players tend to ...find a way to win. They can out think the lower player, and with good cue ball control and good strategy, and a good working knowledge of safeties, the lower player should feel hopeless against a much better player.

In a league with the 17 point system, if you are giving up 12 points, you have much better players than the other team. Your players got rated high because they win a lot. The other players got their ratings cuz they lose a lot. This alone is an advantage to the better team...because winning is a habit, and losing is a habit. Weaker teams have an inherent lack of confidence. Confidence is powerful aid in a match. Better team should have that going for them.

Your better players, should be crushing their opponents, not just winning. If you leave your opponent with 4 balls on the table, it's 17-3...this should happen at least twice in every match. Hat puts you ahead 16 points AFTER THE HANDICAP. now out of the other 3 games left...lets say you lose one 5-17...you gave back 12 points, so your up 4 points. Last 2 games, you can win one and lose one and you still win the match.

You've won 3 games, had not a single break n run or ERO, and you still win.
How are you suggesting that you need to win 4 games?
The only way that could be is if you're going to the wire on every game that you are winning...your players must demand more from themselves. They must play to their ability...not just play for a win. If you are playing a player of a lower caliber, you must leave them with some balls on the table...because if you don't...that means that you are giving them like 2-3 turns up to the table...which is poor playing on the better players part...whether they win or lose.

There is of course ...the sandbagging that can come into play...however, people that sandbag have a weak mindset and therefore are still easy to beat in my personal experience.

Play a professional pool player, and get any spot you want, and see that what I'm telling you is correct. They'll come out on top almost no matter what.

It's really all mindset, in my opinion.

i agree with you mostly except for 1 point.

1. sand baggers.....guess you never read my thread on outing a sandbagger in apa one time. there was a 4 playing a 9 ball match against my 8. i have known this 4 for about 8 years and had played on the same team with him when i 1st met him. i knew he was a sandbagger because he was better than me and i am a 5.

well in this particular match it was obvious he was just banging balls around and was down by a score of 55-11 to my player. as he was standing there netween our tables while my player was shooting i got up and stood by him and whispered in his ear.

i said you are not just getting beat my my player ...you are getting down right embarrased by him..... i know you are better than that. well like i said when my player missed he is up 55-11. this 4 promptly walks up to the table and makes 21 straight points winning the match. helluva coincidence it took him 9 innings to make 11 points and then iafter i said he was getting embarrased he walks up to the yables and scores 21 straight points in 0 innings huh ? needless to say he was not a 4 the following week.

as far as the better player winning a handicapped match....i agree completely....as long as the handicaps are fairly accurate.

 

[8onthebreak]

It's all about mindset

i agree with you mostly except for 1 point.

1. sand baggers.....guess you never read my thread on outing a sandbagger in apa one time. there was a 4 playing a 9 ball match against my 8. i have known this 4 for about 8 years and had played on the same team with him when i 1st met him. i knew he was a sandbagger because he was better than me and i am a 5.

well in this particular match it was obvious he was just banging balls around and was down by a score of 55-11 to my player. as he was standing there netween our tables while my player was shooting i got up and stood by him and whispered in his ear.

i said you are not just getting beat my my player ...you are getting down right embarrased by him..... i know you are better than that. well like i said when my player missed he is up 55-11. this 4 promptly walks up to the table and makes 21 straight points winning the match. helluva coincidence it took him 9 innings to make 11 points and then iafter i said he was getting embarrased he walks up to the yables and scores 21 straight points in 0 innings huh ? needless to say he was not a 4 the following week.

as far as the better player winning a handicapped match....i agree completely....as long as the handicaps are fairly accurate.

I don't believe that to be co-incidence at all...people respond differently when they are pissed off or challenged. When you poked the sleeping bear...you may have woke him up...it's not unusual AT ALL for a player to start playing lights out or to fold, when challenged or pissed off...one thing is for certain, they are probably going to play different when they've been upset then they were before they got upset.

It stands to logic, that the player would have started playing lights out at the thought of getting embarrassed. That doesn't mean that he wasn't capable of playing like that before...he just may have been not focussed, and you gave him a reason to focus.

On the other hand, he may have been sandbagging and felt like he got caught, so he upped his game, however, I think that this scenario is less likely due to the fact that he wouldn't want to draw attention to the fact that he can play that much better...it just doesn't make sense for him to start running racks and prove you right...?!?

Without knowing any more facts, just based on the limited info, I would say that you need to understand that any player can play at a low level or a high level. Good night, bad night. What makes a player better than another, is their level of consistency...which this guy obviously has none of, even though he has a lot of talent, he is all over the board. That's why he may be rated lower than you think he should be. He may be able to make crazy shots, and string together games, but you are probably more consistent than he, making you the better player.

I've seen a lot of this sandbagging going on in various leagues and I'm not saying that he isn't doing it, but I'm suggesting that your team should be still winning for sure unless you allow your mindset to get in the way. The leagues definately favor the better players and teams.

 

[trob]

No upside for the better player?? I disagree. The better player and team gets the thrill of a challenge!

Like you said, an even match between them would be boring.

With a handicap it can go either way, both sides have to bring the best of what they got.

Agreed... I had to play a 2 this week so it was a 6 2 race. I got bad on the 8 ..had to shoot a jump shot..made the 8 but jumped the cue ball off the table. So I have to win 6 before he wins 1. I enjoyed the challenge and I certainly got more out of that then playing that kid one game where his chances were slim to none of beating me. and yea I pulled it out