Power break..

[MattPoland]

Why is this belief pooping up recently?

The cueball has mass. It takes a decent amount of power to get the cueball of of the table at all on a normal shot. Most shots are not jump shots to any extent.

Okay. Obviously not soft rolling shots. But ever have someone do the trick where they put the cueball like 4 inches off the rail and put a dime 4 inches in front of that and have you hit a stop shot down table and the dime doesn’t move because it fully skips over it?

 

[The_JV]

It takes a decent amount of power to get the cueball of of the table at all on a normal shot. Most shots are not jump shots to any extent.

No where near as much as I think you believe.

..... the CB does take flight with waaay less than people generally believe

HSV B.13 - Level cue follow shot hop over stacks of coins - Dr. Dave Pool Info

billiards.colostate.edu

Thanks for the link Patrick...

 

[Texas Carom Club]

here's mike dechaine doing the same thing:

amazingly useless

 

[DeeDeeCues]

Thanks for the link Patrick...

Do you consider that video to be indicative of the power used on most 'normal' shots?

 

[The_JV]

Do you consider that video to be indicative of the power used on most 'normal' shots?

"Normal" is relative, and I'm now confident your definition will be whatever is required to justify your thoughts on the matter.

It takes very little to get a CB in the air. Hopping over the single penny in the video was quite effortless. Getting over the match stick I suggested is even easier. I'll include that the vast majority of players do not have a stroke parallel to the table, so it's even easier for them to generate hop. Regardless, in terms of the average player. It would take far greater effort to prevent a level of hop then it would to generate it. So I think the phenomenon is indicative of what can be seen with extreme regularity on a pool table.

 

[DeeDeeCues]

"Normal" is relative, and I'm now confident your definition will be whatever is required to justify your thoughts on the matter.

It takes very little to get a CB in the air. Hopping over the single penny in the video was quite effortless. Getting over the match stick I suggested is even easier. I'll include that the vast majority of players do not have a stroke parallel to the table, so it's even easier for them to generate hop. Regardless, in terms of the average player. It would take far greater effort to prevent a level of hop then it would to generate it. So I think the phenomenon is indicative of what can be seen with extreme regularity on a pool table.

I don't care about defending my position, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I don't think a made explicitly to show the phenomenon is proof that the phenomenon is normal on almost every shot. The video shows a force-follow shot with some pace. That isn't my normal shot. Most of my shots are closer to center and hopefully softer.

So, my position is that it can happen, is easy to make happen, and does happen.

My position is further that it does not happen on 'almost every shot' unless you use a a decent amount of power, with a decent amount of draw or follow on almost every shot.

 

[The_JV]

That isn't my normal shot. Most of my shots are closer to center and hopefully softer.

Exactly... "Normal" relative to your argument. You're game isn't the norm when we consider the pool community as a whole.

Your stance was "Most shots are not jump shots to any extent." If we use the premise that a jump shot is a shot that causes the CB to leave the table surface after being struck with the cue. Then it would far more accurate to say that most shots are a jump to some extent.

 

[DeeDeeCues]

Exactly... "Normal" relative to your argument. You're game isn't the norm when we consider the pool community as a whole.

Your stance was "Most shots are not jump shots to any extent." If we use the premise that a jump shot is a shot that causes the CB to leave the table surface after being struck with the cue. Then it would far more accurate to say that most shots are a jump to some extent.

I still don't think that is true for competent players. Your opinion differs and you seem extraordinarily sure of yourself.

Your evidence seems to be that you can jump over a matchstick. That experiment is biased because you have the objective confused with a proof of some sort. You enter the experiment with a bias. Have you ever experimented with how often you are able to make the cueball not jump the matchstick?

 

[The_JV]

I still don't think that is true for competent players. Your opinion differs and you seem extraordinarily sure of yourself.

"Competent" is another relative word. What criteria would deem someone as 'competent' in your opinion...? I consider myself competent, but also don't kid myself about what happens when I either either hit down on the CB or hit it above the equator with light pace.

I'm confident because I'm not speaking in terms of bias opinion, but from experience and a knowledge base of watching the average joe play the game. When a blanket statement is made about what is normal in the game. The I use the average across the board to measure that statement. Not the select (potentially competent) minority.

If you had focused your comment on say the play of pros. You would not have seen a rebuttal from me. Although you may still be on the wrong side of the discussion. However the general sweeping statement lowers the bar considerably.

Your evidence seems to be that you can jump over a matchstick. That experiment is biased because you have the objective confused with a proof of some sort. You enter the experiment with a bias. Have you ever experimented with how often you are able to make the cueball not jump the matchstick?

Nope, I entered the experiment naive to the purpose. This was way back in my snooker days when I was first learning the physics behind what's going on. My mentor at the time was just running the gambit of demonstrations to enhance my understanding. I could repeat the experiment now and the results wouldn't be any different. I could also, with purpose, not clear the match stick to a certain point. Eventually the shot involved in the experiment will either require a force great enough or a cueing angle steep enough to generate hop.

 

[DeeDeeCues]

"Competent" is another relative word. What criteria would deem someone as 'competent' in your opinion...? I consider myself competent, but also don't kid myself about what happens when I either either hit down on the CB or hit it above the equator with light pace.

I'm confident because I'm not speaking in terms of bias opinion, but from experience and a knowledge base of watching the average joe play the game. When a blanket statement is made about what is normal in the game. The I use the average across the board to measure that statement. Not the select (potentially competent) minority.

If you had focused your comment on say the play of pros. You would not have seen a rebuttal from me. Although you may still be on the wrong side of the discussion. However the general sweeping statement lowers the bar considerably.

Nope, I entered the experiment naive to the purpose. This was way back in my snooker days when I was first learning the physics behind what's going on. My mentor at the time was just running the gambit of demonstrations to enhance my understanding. I could repeat the experiment now and the results wouldn't be any different. I could also, with purpose, not clear the match stick to a certain point. Eventually the shot involved in the experiment will either require a force great enough or a cueing angle steep enough to generate hop.

So you did this with a smaller, lighter cueball and a heavy brass ferrule and know the results will be the same when replicated with pool equipment.

I hope your aren't taking this too seriously, I'm not. Maybe I'm bored.

 

[The_JV]

So you did this with a smaller, lighter cueball and a heavy brass ferrule and know the results will be the same when replicated with pool equipment.

I hope your aren't taking this too seriously, I'm not. Maybe I'm bored.

I'm always bored.... that's my secret