Predator Shaft Evolution

[Cornerman]

Can someone put a list down for the evolution of the Predator shafts? I have at least three if not four different vintages of what I think are 314's, but they all have different looks.

For example, I have a 314 with a long ferrule that I'm pretty sure is thermoplastic 3/4" (~.755") ferrules that have low squirt and I have a 314 with slightly under 3/4" ferrule (.710") that has significantly less squirt. This second was presented to me as "second generation" and I never thought anything of it, but it has the same ferrule.

I have a couple of 314's that have the shorter ferrules, they look more like thermosets , and they all have ultra low squirt. But the second shaft above (314 with slightly under 3/4" w/very low squirt) is very close to the squirt characteristics.

And all of these have a ~12.7-12.8mm diameter shaft, so none are Z shafts.

So, can someone go through a list? Pie segments, generations, etc.

Not interested in the Steve Titus & Clawson Cue history, just the shaft evolution. I want to have a clue what I have.

Thanks,

Freddie <~~~ wondering when I got all of these shaft?

 

[pt109]

The first Predator shafts were 6 and 12 piece.
Allan McCarty recommended the 6 piece for breaking.

The first 10 piece had the long ferrule.

I think the next issue had the shorter ferrule and a small 314 near the collar.

 

[cueaddicts]

The first Predator shafts were 6 and 12 piece.
Allan McCarty recommended the 6 piece for breaking.

The first 10 piece had the long ferrule.

I think the next issue had the shorter ferrule and a small 314 near the collar.

That's my understanding, too. It's wild how desirable these early Pred shafts have become. I've got an early 3/8-10 10-splice that came from a partial with the longer ferrule...super well made shaft.

 

[Cornerman]

The first Predator shafts were 6 and 12 piece.
Allan McCarty recommended the 6 piece for breaking.

The first 10 piece had the long ferrule.

I think the next issue had the shorter ferrule and a small 314 near the collar.

Okay. Thanks.

So here's my photo. On first inspection, it would seem like the first three are the same vintage, while the last two are 314-2's.

I raised the question because the middle one (10-piece with almost but not quite the same length ferrule) I got several years after the first two and several years before the last two. It (the middle) has about the same squirt characteristics as the 314-2's, but way less then the first two.

I was wondering if there was an interim (314-1a?).

Freddie

 

[iusedtoberich]

The first year or so of production the ferrules were 1.0" long. I have one of these shafts.

Then they went to 0.70" to 0.75" for roughly 10 years. These were with 314 in block letters, and also 314 with the cat logo.

All the shafts up to this point were made in North America.

Then the "second" generation came out. These had 0.60" to 0.625" ferrules of a different material. They also had a phenolic insert that the brass threaded joint insert threaded into. The later ones of these also had a serial number engraved on the joint face. The logo on these was a cat with 314^2. The ferrule material on these was slightly harder then the earlier versions, IMO. I did cue repair for several years, and if you spun the first generation too fast while cleaning the ferrule, the heat could actually cause it to bubble up. These were mostly made in Asia, but there is still some production in North America.

The tapers on all versions seems the same.

I have had several of each version, been using them exclusively since the mid 90's. I've also taken a couple of them apart to see the insides. In my opinion, they all deflect the same amount. I can switch between any of them and play the same. That is not true for me if I play with a tiger or OB. I definitely notice the difference in aim required when I play with those.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Freddie, your middle shaft is just a 314-1 with a ton of tip replacements. You can also see the material color difference between the 3 1st generation shafts on the left and the 2 2nd generation shafts on the right.

 

[cueaddicts]

Fred, did you buy it new or used? I'm wondering if maybe someone just trimmed it down a little while doing a retip. We've seen a ton of aftermarket ferrule work (replacements/experiments/etc.) on Predator shafts over the years.

 

[Cornerman]

Freddie, your middle shaft is just a 314-1 with a ton of tip replacements.

Thanks

Hmmmm…. to the best of my knowledge, I have never changed this tip. But, I can't say that the cue maker didn't face it off a bit when I first got it.

To your earlier comment, this shaft definitely has less squirt than my other 314-1's. I'm kinda wondering if some of the newness of the 314-2 weren't incorporated in the latter stages of 314-1.



Freddie <~~~ Someone go wake up Shane Sinnot.

 

[shanesinnott]

So, can someone go through a list? Pie segments, generations, etc.

Not interested in the Steve Titus & Clawson Cue history, just the shaft evolution. I want to have a clue what I have.

Thanks,

Freddie <~~~ wondering when I got all of these shaft?

Fred,

As you know I worked there from early 1996 to late 2003 however my memory is not as good as it used to be but here is what I recall.

The first shafts made were LD and one piece in Clawson. They then figured out how to radially splice the shafts and started experimenting with 6 piece, 10 piece and 12 piece shafts. Iron Willie was used to determine which configuration was most radially consistent and it was determined that 10 was better than 6 but 12 was only slightly improved on 10 and too small of a difference for pool players to tell so they settled on 10. The 6 piece were not suggested to be better for breaking with, in fact it was recommended that you could break with any Predator shaft irrespective of the number of splices.

The original ferrules were 1". A change was made to 3/4" after a few years and iirc the logo was changed at that time from having just 314 on the 1 inch to having 314 with the cat on the 3/4". I do not believe that the ferrule material was changed when the length and logo was changed but I could be wrong. Predator also made a change internally on the shaft at that time. The hole was originally capped with a small plastic disk that was glued to the top of the tenon (this was to prevent ferrule glue from getting inside the hole). On occasion, the disk would move or not be installed correctly and on a completed shaft a piece of ferrule glue could break off and get inside the hole and create a rattle or buzzing noise which resulted in returns that required the ferrule to be removed and the hole cleaned out and the front end completed again. The plastic disks were then replaced with a foam material used to plug the front end prior to the ferrule being installed to reduce/eliminate the opportunity for ferrule glue to get inside the hole.

The switch to 3/4" ferrules did reduce the amount of cueball squirt as front end mass was reduced with the shorter ferrule. Eventually the Z shafts were added and later there was a further switch to even shorter ferrules on both shafts to further reduce cueball squirt which resulted in the 2nd generation 314-2 and Z-2 being born.

After I left Predator the 2nd generation shafts received a ferrule material change which did result in many returns as the ferrules were cracking way too easily. Predator eventually did a recall on all of these shafts which I am sure was a nightmare but as far as I could tell, they did everything in there power to fix this situation asap (although it took months) and eventually got back stock from most of their dealers and distributors and then made another ferrule material switch which is afaik the same material they use today.

Predator always made the shaft blanks themselves but would have other companies turn them. I believe they used Falcon (primarily), McDermott, Viking, Joss, Samsara to do the turning. However, none of these companies would ever be responsible for the ld work in the first 5 inches. Predator would send them 10 piece rough blanks and they would come back with the shaft turned, taper done, joint work and logo installed but the drilling of the hole in the front end and the installation of the ferrule and tip and final finish sanding and buffing was always done by Predator.

A decision was then made to stop manufacturing shaft blanks and finishing shafts in Jacksonville, Florida and move all of the production to China which is where all of the shafts are made today. I am not privy to any additional ferrule material changes or shaft front end construction changes since then beyond what I read on the forums and hear through the grapevine.

As far as timelines for all of the above, your guess is as good as mine. As stated, my memory is not what it used to be. I can however suggest that if you really want to know, then call Allan McCarty and he should be able to fill in some blanks for you (feel free to PM me for his cell if you would like to speak with him. I am sure he would be happy to talk with you about it)

Hope this helps Freddie.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Freddie, if you indeed can detect a squirt difference on the shaft with the middle ferrule, it could be because the thickness of its "cap" has been reduced by whoever cut it down at some point in its life. This would remove mass immediately behind the tip, where it is most significant to squirt. From your picture, it looks like a significant amount of material was removed. I wouldn't break with that shaft.

I have the dimensions of the predator ferrule design (314-1) and hollow bore diameters as well somewhere. I used to be a very angry player and break many predator shafts, lol. Also being an engineer, I'd take them apart and measure them up. Anyway, we could find out how much wall is left on your ferrule by you taking an external length measurement and me finding my notes (if I still have them)

I have a cross sectional exploded view I drew up a few years ago and posted of the ferrule design so you can see, but my attachments in the user control panel are not working for some reason, so I can't repost it right now.