Predator ver Meucci stroke robot ....

[WilleeCue]

Last I heard, Predator was working with some engineers at a university to study and possibly revise their stroke robot.
Does anyone have any information about whether they came up with anything?
The fact that Meucci's robot arm and Predators Robot arm gives different results for the same shaft shows that something is not quite right with one or both of them.
I know one cuemaker in Houston that built one and it gave very similar results compared to Meucci's robot arm.

 

[drivermaker]

Last I heard, Predator was working with some engineers at a university to study and possibly revise their stroke robot.
Does anyone have any information about whether they came up with anything?
The fact that Meucci's robot arm and Predators Robot arm gives different results for the same shaft shows that something is not quite right with one or both of them.
I know one cuemaker in Houston that built one and it gave very similar results compared to Meucci's robot arm.

Don't know anything about that, but is the cue in the picture next to your name one that YOU built or someone else?
BTW, why would Predator want to build another one unless it skewed the results even moreso in their favor? And besides, WHO beyond Predator personnel has seen the testing performed. At least Bob Meucci made a tape of his tests and will send it out to ANYONE that requests it....FREE!

 

[WilleeCue]

Don't know anything about that, but is the cue in the picture next to your name one that YOU built or someone else?
BTW, why would Predator want to build another one unless it skewed the results even moreso in their favor? And besides, WHO beyond Predator personnel has seen the testing performed. At least Bob Meucci made a tape of his tests and will send it out to ANYONE that requests it....FREE!

Yes, that is a cue that I designed and built.
It is still for sale.
It was the last cues I made on my panaograph inlay machine before upgrading to CNC.
Robbin Adair owns it and has it in his pro-shop with a price tag of $700.
It has a radial pin and two shafts.

I think that Predator had a hunch that something was not quite right when their robot arm gave different results than the one Bob Meucci built.
Yes, their robot favored their shafts but I guess they wanted to know the truth no matter what it was.
If you are going to base product development on research data you want that data to be as accurate as possable.
What I heard was that they contracted a university to study it and come up with improvements to make it more accurate.
But that was about a year ago and no word since.

Bob Meucci takes his robot out in public and tests shafts that people bring to him.
Right there and in front of everyone.
I have watched those tests with a close eye and unless he is pulling some slick trick (I doubt that very much) his squirt tests apear to be valid and fair ... at least to my judgment.
I could find no fault with his testing methods and I was looking hard.
It is a comparison test of the results from cue A compaired to the results of cue B.
Everything stays the same except for the cues or sometimes just the shafts.
To reinforce that, a Houston cuemaker built one and the results from that robot was almost identical to that of Meucci's machine.
Had that machine gave results different from Meucci's machine then I would have been suspicious of all of them.
I know that aint real scientific methods but it is the best I can do with my limited resources

 

[Jon]

Yes, that is a cue that I designed and built.
It is still for sale.
It was the last cues I made on my panaograph inlay machine before upgrading to CNC.
Robbin Adair owns it and has it in his pro-shop with a price tag of $700.
It has a radial pin and two shafts.

I think that Predator had a hunch that something was not quite right when their robot arm gave different results than the one Bob Meucci built.
Yes, their robot favored their shafts but I guess they wanted to know the truth no matter what it was.
If you are going to base product development on research data you want that data to be as accurate as possable.
What I heard was that they contracted a university to study it and come up with improvements to make it more accurate.
But that was about a year ago and no word since.

Bob Meucci takes his robot out in public and tests shafts that people bring to him.
Right there and in front of everyone.
I have watched those tests with a close eye and unless he is pulling some slick trick (I doubt that very much) his squirt tests apear to be valid and fair ... at least to my judgment.
I could find no fault with his testing methods and I was looking hard.
It is a comparison test of the results from cue A compaired to the results of cue B.
Everything stays the same except for the cues or sometimes just the shafts.
To reinforce that, a Houston cuemaker built one and the results from that robot was almost identical to that of Meucci's machine.
Had that machine gave results different from Meucci's machine then I would have been suspicious of all of them.
I know that aint real scientific methods but it is the best I can do with my limited resources

Yes, i will say that Bob will do the tests in "public", i know he will send a video to anybody that asks for it, because i have one. Now, he does the testing in the public view, but he doesn't SET IT UP, in public view. I could go into more detail, but the last time i did, it brought the Moochi lovers out of the woodwork...

Thanks,

Jon

 

[WilleeCue]

I could go into more detail, but the last time i did, it brought the Moochi lovers out of the woodwork...
Thanks,Jon

He He .. I can understand exactly what you are saying Jon.

However, if there is something that you know to be wrong with his machine, I would very much like to know. I thoght he set the machine up before the gates opened so it would be ready to go when the doors opened. You think there is some other reason he sets it up before the crowds gather around his space? You can PM if you would rather.

BTW ... poor kitty (your new avatar)

 

[bill190]

I have not seen any testing results of "same shafts" with a different radius of tip!

I read somewhere that the tip radius (nickel, dime, etc.) could change the amount of deflection, so why not test with nickel *and* dime shaped tips to either prove or disprove this theory?

Looking at the following deflection chart (mostly dime tips at top), I wonder if the results would be different if the tip radius was changed on the different shafts?

http://www.platinumbilliards.com/rating_deflect.php

 

[JoeyInCali]

Yes, i will say that Bob will do the tests in "public", i know he will send a video to anybody that asks for it, because i have one. Now, he does the testing in the public view, but he doesn't SET IT UP, in public view. I could go into more detail, but the last time i did, it brought the Moochi lovers out of the woodwork...

Thanks,

Jon

Since Bob doesn't let anyone touch his robot, I don't trust it.
Why even use a robot? Why not just use a pendulum?
Can't rig that one?

 

[cueman]

I have watched Meucci demo his robot a few times at the BCA shows. Here is how Meucci has an advantage. He puts the Meucci of his choice up there and tests all others against it. If I was going to test my cues before the world I would test a few and use the best one in public. I would assume he does he same. I saw it beat everything that was put up against it with one exception. A small cuemaker put his cue up there and it beat the Meucci. He was ecstatic. But Meucci beat all others that brought theirs to be tested. Believe it or not the Cue Tech without fiberglass coating but with the rod in the middle of shaft with exposed wood scored second behind Meucci the year I saw it tested. It beat the Predator Bob was testing.
Jon could be right that it is rigged somehow like different tip radius and such. But one thing about it is that Bob's robot was a precision aluminum device and Predators early robot was made out of wood and stood on legs from the floor and was not all that stable. On the other hand Bob's robot was very stable. I am a fan of neither as I feel I build good playing cues, so I have no bone to pick with either. One thing about it, all three of the top production cues as far as lower deflection is concerned used a softer ferrule.
I quit using a softer ferrule unless requested because, because I get too much cue ball spin on faster cloth. My son however puts softer high action ferrules on all the playing cues he builds, unless requested otherwise. Bottom line is we all judge a cue as much on how we like the feel of it, as we do how good it plays. If we don't like the feel it will hurt our game even if it does have a smaller amount of deflection.
Chris
www.internationalcuemakers.com
www.cuesmith.com

 

[drivermaker]

Since Bob doesn't let anyone touch his robot, I don't trust it.

GASP....Between you and Big Jon, are you saying that there might be some behind the scenes hanky panky going on?? Please don't tell me that you also think Predator might be doing something to skew the results also!! I don't know if I can take two bombs like this in one day. My bubble is just going to go KAAAABOOOOOOOOMMMM!!!

 

[JoeyInCali]

Thanks for all info Chris.
I'll make a hollowed shaft with a nylon ferrule and have Bob test that. LOL
I'll make sure it has a flat Elk Master tip as well.

 

[Jon]

GASP....Between you and Big Jon, are you saying that there might be some behind the scenes hanky panky going on?? Please don't tell me that you also think Predator might be doing something to skew the results also!! I don't know if I can take two bombs like this in one day. My bubble is just going to go KAAAABOOOOOOOOMMMM!!!

Hey Driver...

Do you think anybody remembers that guy... oh what was his name... let me think a minute... OH YEAH, it was Mosconi... did he use a red dot or a 314? How about some of these people ask Efren about deflection? lol Two of the worlds greatest players EVER, didn't care about deflection, so why should we? If everybody would worry about bettering their stroke and learning BHE, the pool world would be a better place...

Also, i look around the pool room in winston-salem... and i don't see the best players in the room playing with either red dot or 314, and Dafatman if you read this, correct me if i'm wrong.

Thanks,

Jon

 

[drivermaker]

Hey Driver...

Do you think anybody remembers that guy... oh what was his name... let me think a minute... OH YEAH, it was Mosconi... did he use a red dot or a 314? How about some of these people ask Efren about deflection? lol Two of the worlds greatest players EVER, didn't care about deflection, so why should we? If everybody would worry about bettering their stroke and learning BHE, the pool world would be a better place...
Thanks,
Jon

The question is Jon, would Willee have used the high tech stuff if it was available to him? Would he have used a Cuetec like Earl? Would he have just gone after the money? Would he have started to think that maybe he could run 700 balls with a Predator? Who am I kidding........naaaahhhhh!!!

 

[01rkclassic]

Hey Driver...

Do you think anybody remembers that guy... oh what was his name... let me think a minute... OH YEAH, it was Mosconi... did he use a red dot or a 314? How about some of these people ask Efren about deflection? lol Two of the worlds greatest players EVER, didn't care about deflection, so why should we? If everybody would worry about bettering their stroke and learning BHE, the pool world would be a better place...

Also, i look around the pool room in winston-salem... and i don't see the best players in the room playing with either red dot or 314, and Dafatman if you read this, correct me if i'm wrong.

Thanks,

Jon

Here here john everybody is try to get equipment that corrects for their bad habits(stroke) instead of improving their fundamentals.Big arm john from indy came here a few years ago and beat one of the better player in airway billiards with a broomstick,i don't think he was worried to much about deflection of the broom!LOL. Had to break out his JW to win the 30,000 that he walked away with,still no red dot or 314 involved.

 

[shoutout33]

Ok, that's it. My mind is made up. I'm just going to get some regular shafts and learn how to play pool. I mean, I've been fighting this, predator, x-shaft, red-dot, laminated thing for a good minute. So now I'm just going to get some regular shafts and learn how to compensate.

Isn't it possible that a cue maker could get some really nice maple and make regular stiff shaft. I've heard that some cuemakers shafts have less deflection than some laminated ones. Jerry Eick of Blackheart Custom Cues (the person who will be making my 1st custom cue... ) told me that the reason he does the flat laminated shaft thingy is because from a business aspect, he's not wasting any money.

If he gets 10 laminated blocks to work with to make his shafts, he'll be able to make 10 shafts. On the other hand, with the regular maple blocks, he might have to throw out anywhere from 1-5 blocks because of defections or whatever. He personaly feels this is the future when it comes to making shafts. Note, he's not saying this to bring up deflection issues, but rather making a sound business decision.

I'd probably get one of his laminated shafts, because I need to learn how to compensate anyway. I'm realizing more and more each day that a laminated shaft is not to get rid of deflection all together, just reduce it. So in all actuality, you're still compesating, just not as much. You still need to know how and when to use different levels of english so you can keep the cueball in play. Just my opinion and .02 cents.

 

[WilleeCue]

Ok, that's it. My mind is made up. I'm just going to get some regular shafts and learn how to play pool. I mean, I've been fighting this, predator, x-shaft, red-dot, laminated thing for a good minute. So now I'm just going to get some regular shafts and learn how to compensate.

No mater what quality cue you buy ... you can always add a Preditor, an X-Shaft, a Red and a Black dot shaft to it. What kinda pool player are you if you dont have at least three shafts for your cue?

Seriously .... What ever you do buy, stick with it long enough for you to learn to compensate for its weaknesses and master its strengths.
Dont switch around all the time or you will never learn these things.

 

[Skeezicks]

Big arm john from indy came here a few years ago and beat one of the better player in airway billiards with a broomstick,i don't think he was worried to much about deflection of the broom!LOL.

Ok, that's it. My mind is made up. I'm just going to get some regular shafts and learn how to play pool. I mean, I've been fighting this, predator, x-shaft, red-dot, laminated thing for a good minute. So now I'm just going to get some regular shafts and learn how to compensate.

What the hell, shoutout, get you a broomstick.