Pro One: A Way to Prove No Adjustments

BeiberLvr

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There seems to be two groups of people. Those who think there are adjustments involved with Pro One, and those who don't.

I think I came up with a way to proof this claim either right or wrong if someone like Stan or Gerry are up for it.

What if someone (we'll say Stan) were to set up multiple shots. Then before they got down into their stance, a curtain were pulled in between the CB and the OB, so now he could no longer see the OB.

I believe that without being able to see the OB, it would be impossible to make any subconscious adjustments.
 
BeiberLvr said:
There seems to be two groups of people. Those who think there are adjustments involved with Pro One, and those who don't.

I think I came up with a way to proof this claim either right or wrong if someone like Stan or Gerry are up for it.

What if someone (we'll say Stan) were to set up multiple shots. Then before they got down into their stance, a curtain were pulled in between the CB and the OB, so now he could no longer see the OB.

I believe that without being able to see the OB, it would be impossible to make any subconscious adjustments.
Click to expand...

I put up a YouTube video today that shows why what you suggest is not ideal.

Stan Shuffett
 
If an adjustment is SUBconscious then you don't about it anyway. So who cares?

As I have said many times before if the steps in using ProOne/Cte or any method lead you to the point where you are down on the shot on the correct shot line consistently then why should anyone even care about whether there are any adjustments or not?

Think about it.

How far OFF the correct shot line would you need to for any "adjustment" TO the correct shot line to be noticeable consciously? Pretty far off I would say. So IF you are coming down into the shot and your subconscious somehow makes your body move in such a way as to bring you to the correct shot line then isn't that what you want to happen?

So ProOne says do step 1, step 2, step 3 and you are down on the ball. (it's not step 1,2,3, but for the purpose of the discussion...) so where in these steps does the subconscious adjusting happen? In the sighting of the shot from Center to Edge? In the positioning of the feet? Sweeping the eyes into the shot? Coming down into the shooting stance?

And how does the subconscious know what the correct shot line is? If it knows this then why do people aim wrong ever? Why are any systems needed at all, why do you need Ghost Ball? I mean mechanically you simply put your bridge hand down so that the v-notch forms a point on the shot line, the only line that works to send the cue ball down the right path. So given that simple mechanical task how come the supercomputer in our heads doesn't automatically put us on that line every time without the need for any conscious methods?

The whole POINT of using conscious methods is to lead the shooter to the shot line or as close as humanly possible, consistently, shot after shot after shot. If the use of a method leads to more consistency in shotmaking then it's simply more accurate. The idea of talking about what the subconscious does or does not do is not even really helpful because no one can accurately measure the subsconscious, we can only infer that it exists and how it influences us. But to me to give the subconscious credit for getting ON the right shot line means you have to give it credit for getting on the wrong shot line as well.

I believe however that what we call the subconscious is simply synaptic connections in the brain which have been formed as a result of training. Thus when a task is completed the correct way then a connection is formed that fires when that task is required again. The more it's done the easier and quicker that the brain processes the instructions. So hitting a million balls or using a system that is known to bring the shooter to the shot line both achieves the same goal, it trains the brain to recognize the right shot lines.

For CTE though there are times during training where you come up against a shot for which you have no prior training. This is where you have the VERY CONSCIOUS thought that you DO NOT KNOW if the shot line you are down on is right. You take it on faith in the system at that moment and often times are rewarded with a correct result. Later when you actually practice that shot you are able to verify that yes, in fact, the system brought you to the right shot line.

So in conclusion, CTE/ProOne brings you to the point where it doesn't matter whether it's your conscious or subconscious at work. Either way you are able to get down on the shot accurately.
 
JB Cases said:
If an adjustment is SUBconscious then you don't about it anyway. So who cares?

As I have said many times before if the steps in using ProOne/Cte or any method lead you to the point where you are down on the shot on the correct shot line consistently then why should anyone even care about whether there are any adjustments or not?

Think about it.

How far OFF the correct shot line would you need to for any "adjustment" TO the correct shot line to be noticeable consciously? Pretty far off I would say. So IF you are coming down into the shot and your subconscious somehow makes your body move in such a way as to bring you to the correct shot line then isn't that what you want to happen?

So ProOne says do step 1, step 2, step 3 and you are down on the ball. (it's not step 1,2,3, but for the purpose of the discussion...) so where in these steps does the subconscious adjusting happen? In the sighting of the shot from Center to Edge? In the positioning of the feet? Sweeping the eyes into the shot? Coming down into the shooting stance?

And how does the subconscious know what the correct shot line is? If it knows this then why do people aim wrong ever? Why are any systems needed at all, why do you need Ghost Ball? I mean mechanically you simply put your bridge hand down so that the v-notch forms a point on the shot line, the only line that works to send the cue ball down the right path. So given that simple mechanical task how come the supercomputer in our heads doesn't automatically put us on that line every time without the need for any conscious methods?

The whole POINT of using conscious methods is to lead the shooter to the shot line or as close as humanly possible, consistently, shot after shot after shot. If the use of a method leads to more consistency in shotmaking then it's simply more accurate. The idea of talking about what the subconscious does or does not do is not even really helpful because no one can accurately measure the subsconscious, we can only infer that it exists and how it influences us. But to me to give the subconscious credit for getting ON the right shot line means you have to give it credit for getting on the wrong shot line as well.

I believe however that what we call the subconscious is simply synaptic connections in the brain which have been formed as a result of training. Thus when a task is completed the correct way then a connection is formed that fires when that task is required again. The more it's done the easier and quicker that the brain processes the instructions. So hitting a million balls or using a system that is known to bring the shooter to the shot line both achieves the same goal, it trains the brain to recognize the right shot lines.

For CTE though there are times during training where you come up against a shot for which you have no prior training. This is where you have the VERY CONSCIOUS thought that you DO NOT KNOW if the shot line you are down on is right. You take it on faith in the system at that moment and often times are rewarded with a correct result. Later when you actually practice that shot you are able to verify that yes, in fact, the system brought you to the right shot line.

So in conclusion, CTE/ProOne brings you to the point where it doesn't matter whether it's your conscious or subconscious at work. Either way you are able to get down on the shot accurately.
Click to expand...

I agree that it shouldn't matter, but I believe in the case of Pro One, it does.

Once you consider the idea that the subconscious might be making adjustments, it sort of puts a slight hole in the system. It doesn't mean it doesn't work. It works extremely well, and I know this from my own personal experience. It just means it doesn't work as advertised.

We [users of the system] can easily say that we aren't making any adjustments, but do we have any evidence of that. Making balls and running out is not evidence. I thought that my idea would be a way of proving there are no adjustments. However, it sounds like Stan does not agree. I'll gladly take his word on the matter.
 
BeiberLvr said:
What if someone (we'll say Stan) were to set up multiple shots. Then before they got down into their stance, a curtain were pulled in between the CB and the OB, so now he could no longer see the OB.
Click to expand...

Why not use venetian blinds? Just twist to open and close them.

Plus they are more stylish.
 
Hi everyone :-)

that i ve learnt the oldschooled way, like 99 % of the pals here should be clear- i always like to learn sth new. And when i saw longer ago the first thread about CTE in general and later about Pro1 i was immediatley interested.
Especially how Mister Stan Shuffett explained *his way* and how he developed the *finetuned version* of cte he then named Pro-1.
I tested out everything i *found*, what seemed to be interesting-and if it was *really really new* to me, then even more. To make your own thoughts about something new just increases your knowledge. It s like in real life- to proof something and then make it work for you, or even not.

I spent time with Ekkes See-System when he released the first *beta* (thanks again for sending it to me in early stages of it s development).
It works- no doubt about it. And imo it canwork for everyone-you just have to put in the necessary time.

Back to CTE/Pro-1: I haven t got the time, to spend 100 s of hours to really work with it-- and it often was a matter of missing information (for me personally, also often a matter if misunderstanding caused by language problems, or overcomplicating it by myself).
I would say it was more kind of *let s test it out* when i found a bit time. and then spend 1-2 hours here and there-nothing big.

in the past 2 weeks i had a bit more time. And i just wanted to hit some balls-and have fun. ....and i had so much fun.
2 weeks ago i went to pool room early in the morning-and spent 3 hours just *trying* to use pro-1. (let me say, that i didn t try to learn it the recommended way-not pivoting manually like in CTE). Well- after about 15-20 minutes i started to make more and more balls. after one hour i decided to make notes.
i shot 100 balls. 50 left cut, and 50 right cut.
43 out of 50 of the left cuts
30 out of 50 of the right cuts.

the *practice* shots with the left cuts amazed me- bc of the high percentage of shots i made.
then the right cuts put me back on earth-LOL.

so before i was close to get *pissed* i started to put on the exactly same shot (a left cut) over and over again. So i gave this a try on 75 more shots.
missed the first 4 shots. then made 41 in a row. missed 2 times. then made again every shot. So i made 69 shots of this shot.

For me, as i m also giving instructions- and being able (usualy, LOL)to explain everything *why something works* (or not, ^^) it was very strange. I was kind of positivley upset, because 69 out of 75 is a super high percentage number (imo).
Ok- so i ended this session-and i felt great.
The next day after work again to the table. setting up first the same shot i practiced the day before. i took 30 shots- and made 25. so it was ok.

then i moved with the shot to the opposite- and planned to make it again 75 times.
it begun with many missed shots-kind of frustrating. i made 45 out of 75 finally. So i knew for myself- that this must be a *self-made* error.
Again i moved back to the left cut i practiced so succesful before and the day before....and made 30 more shots.....with the result of 28 out of 30.

It was killing me :p if you have no person, who can observe you and could tell you sth what you re doing wrong.....- so again- before gettin too frustrated i ended the session.

Next day very early in the morning i set up cam just so i can see the two balls and me *in line*, while i was setting up, standing in the offset-position.
So i started again with my *famous* left cut. (lmao). 75 shots, making 66 out of em. Still satisfying for me.
then over to the same shot...but as a right cut.
40 out of 75..........woah- i love to play-and it s hard to get angry in pool for me. but i was very close to be very pissed. so ran through the vid. and after about 5 minutes i detected that i haave had a totally different offset position on those right cuts. I was *much more straight behind the balls* on the right cut. Almost straight in behind them. so it was logical that i haven t got the correct visuals.
from then i setup it again 30 shots. and after some minutes it started to work and payback. after makin *just* 5 out of 10, i made the next 16 in a row.

In my opinion the key was watching again 2 vids from Stan- and finally 2 short conversations with Stan via FB. For me personally it was his sentence *let the eyes lead, and the body will follow".
I was trickying myself with my burned in PSR, to step exactly into the shot *from standing behind the balls on the striking line*. (not get me wrong- i still teach this also !). I m still too far away to be able to teach someone pro-1. but it s gettin more and more interesting for me.

But i m very lucky and satisfied, that i was able to detect myself an alignment error (being in a different off-set position on some shots).

In the following days (5 x 1-2 hours) i practiced random shots (not always exactly the same shot) and the results felt good for me.
3 days ago i then started to practice also *straight in* shots with Pro-1. I was always really a bit afraid, because it felt so f....ng strange for me, to be *not in line with all 3 given factors i used before (cb-ob-pocket=striking line).
And i think this *straight in session* using pro-1 was an eye opener for me-- and showed me, that it made *click* for me. Self-Belief increased. I don t know how many i lined up from an offset on straight-ins to then be so amazed, that i m dead in /straight in on the shot. Again this feeling came up.."why the **** does this work-LMAO!* .......

Well- to be honest. I m trying now to stay away to find out why it works. I try to see it as Stan says: it works geometrically on a regulation table. Why ever? not my case-it works.

I m having the most problems now, if the ob is more far away (distance cb-ob). but that s just a case of my extremly bad eye-sight.

And here i will come shortly back to beibers topic :-)

to be sure, that i made no adjustments: when i practiced the last 2 days, i put off my billiard-glasses. And then put on my varifocal glasses i usually wear. and you can believe me. I cannot shoot usually with this one single ball. i setup shots where i just can see the cueball and the objectball. and behind the objectball the world ends for me- i m not able to see anything the objectball :-)
And still i made the shots. This was a very interesting test for me. and gave me even more belief in Pro-1.

to be continued.

Sorry for the long thread. Happy if someone found it interesting.

lg
Ingo
 
BeiberLvr said:
There seems to be two groups of people. Those who think there are adjustments involved with Pro One, and those who don't.

I think I came up with a way to proof this claim either right or wrong if someone like Stan or Gerry are up for it.

What if someone (we'll say Stan) were to set up multiple shots. Then before they got down into their stance, a curtain were pulled in between the CB and the OB, so now he could no longer see the OB.

I believe that without being able to see the OB, it would be impossible to make any subconscious adjustments.
Click to expand...

Stan already did this video 4 months ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l0fAwmeOq8
 
IMHO what you want to strive for is to get your eyes on the exact visual for the fixed cueball, then sweep your eyes to center cueball precisely so a center-cueball hit will take you to the hole. If there are any adjustments, they would be slight tweaks to bring your body/cue into alignment to what your eyes have already established. In NO WAY do you want to tweak your eye position, as this should already be exact.

If you find yourself missing shots because your eye-position was not correct, then you need to work on fixing something that happened earlier: either you are not getting on the exact visual alignment at ball address, or you are not sweeping accurately to full stance.

The only way to get to top proficiency with this system is to understand 100% that this is a visual system, the eyes lead and the body follows. So long as the eyes do everything correctly, it is just a matter of bringing the cue stick into alignment with your eyes. If you approach the system in this manner, your success will happen far sooner than later. Center cueball is the target!
 
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I've tried shots where I will close my eyes once I have my lines and sweep locked in. Ill close my eyes before I get down to CCB and shoot the shot blind.

Once you have used ProOne for long enough, the way you get down to a shot becomes incredibly consistent, due to you positioning yourself a certain way to maintain both visual reference lines for an A, B and C shot. So even with eyes closed, you can find CCB. That's what I found anyway. Pocketing balls with my eyes shut was just as easy as pocketing the balls with my eyes open.
 
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