Pro One: Need help

[Vhal]

Been working with Pro One off and on for about a year. The off and on is due to frustrations in understanding.

I spoke with Stan over the phone about a month ago and he was able to help me out. But there are still areas that I am struggling with.

Right now my current question is in regards to ball address and establishing visuals and getting my eyes in the right spot. I've attempted to make some diagrams to show my perspective and what it is I am doing. I do not know if this is correct or not, as not all of the shots I make have the desired results.

That's what I want clarification on.
Also, if Stan could chime in and tell me his definition of a "fixed cue ball" that I see in a lot of his posts, that would be appreciated.

Ok diagrams.

Right handed. Right eye dominant.



This is how things look when I have chosen a shot. This is exactly what it looks like from my perspective at ball address.

I see this is somewhat of a thick cut to the left. So I then kind of shift my head to the left, and with this I get the CTE perspective. In this instance, Center CB to Right OB Edge. And I decide on aim point A and visualize that line.

Once I have those 2 lines, my eyes move down and to the left (mine always move left for left cuts and right for right cuts...) to a spot on the cue that is between the center-to-edge line and the edge-to-aimpoint.

From there, I don't really yet know how to describe what I do, as I can not tell the difference between left and right sweeps/pivots.

When talking with Stan, I described what I was doing as best as I could. One thing that I was doing, that he said not to do, was physically stand on the CTE line at ball address. Since then I have stopped and have had a bit more success than I previously was.

 

[Vhal]

Thanks, my internet posts always seem to fail.

Currently I have good success with the thicker cuts and the really thin cuts that use C and 1/8th.

 

[Vhal]

My only guess is that they have always been easier for me to sight and its easier for me to tell if it looks correct.

 

[LAMas]

Been working with Pro One off and on for about a year. The off and on is due to frustrations in understanding.

I spoke with Stan over the phone about a month ago and he was able to help me out. But there are still areas that I am struggling with.

Right now my current question is in regards to ball address and establishing visuals and getting my eyes in the right spot. I've attempted to make some diagrams to show my perspective and what it is I am doing. I do not know if this is correct or not, as not all of the shots I make have the desired results.

That's what I want clarification on.
Also, if Stan could chime in and tell me his definition of a "fixed cue ball" that I see in a lot of his posts, that would be appreciated.

Ok diagrams.


Right handed. Right eye dominant.



This is how things look when I have chosen a shot. This is exactly what it looks like from my perspective at ball address.

I see this is somewhat of a thick cut to the left. So I then kind of shift my head to the left, and with this I get the CTE perspective. In this instance, Center CB to Right OB Edge. And I decide on aim point A and visualize that line.

Once I have those 2 lines, my eyes move down and to the left (mine always move left for left cuts and right for right cuts...) to a spot on the cue that is between the center-to-edge line and the edge-to-aimpoint.

From there, I don't really yet know how to describe what I do, as I can not tell the difference between left and right sweeps/pivots.

When talking with Stan, I described what I was doing as best as I could. One thing that I was doing, that he said not to do, was physically stand on the CTE line at ball address. Since then I have stopped and have had a bit more success than I previously was.

How does one view your php pictures?

 

[gazman100]

Hi Vhal,
Can you repost your pictures in Jpeg or simular as your images are not being displayed at this end.
Cheers

 

[Vhal]

Strange, looks fine from my end, even when not logged in.

Rehosted images to Imgur. Hopefully that works out better.

 

[nobcitypool]

Just some thoughts on what may be contributing to your struggles.

You need to be offset to the left of the CTEL. This is essential. To help get your visual, start by finding the center CB to center OB line. Now move your eyes until you find CTE and ETA. Now hold everything in place, move your focus to the CB. Find the center, pivot/sweep into CCB and shoot. If you're trying Pro One, keep in mind the movement is likely smaller than you would think. If you found your visual on the diagrammed shot and found that you were straight on after the sweep, your move was too much.

Practice the proposition shots. Practicing straight in really helped me. Get a laser and the white hole reinforcers to set up practice shots. This will allow you to determine the correct movement and fine tune it. Once you have that, you can expand your selection of shots to practice.

As Stan has said, CTE/Pro One is a professional shooting system. If you have errors and slop in your PSR and stroke, you will miss shots. CTE/Pro One exposed problems in other parts of my game that I had to fix in order for it to begin to work. That's a great thing IMHO. The system requires a great deal of precision to work properly, you have to decide if you're willing to put in the table time to make it work.

Read other threads in this section, tons of great information from some really good players using the system. Check out mohrt's web site, great information there. If you're truly committed to becoming better, make the trip to see either Stan or Stevie Moore, I don't care if you need to take a Greyhound to do it. CTE/Pro One is far more than an aiming system, it is a pool playing system and can lead you to great improvement if you're willing to invest the time in it. However, it's not easy, you have to put in the table time. Good luck!

 

[Vhal]

Just some thoughts on what may be contributing to your struggles.

You need to be offset to the left of the CTEL. This is essential. To help get your visual, start by finding the center CB to center OB line. Now move your eyes until you find CTE and ETA. Now hold everything in place, move your focus to the CB. Find the center, pivot/sweep into CCB and shoot. If you're trying Pro One, keep in mind the movement is likely smaller than you would think. If you found your visual on the diagrammed shot and found that you were straight on after the sweep, your move was too much.

Not sure if you can see the images I posted, but from your description above, it sounds like I am on the right track. I can see both lines regardless of where I am standing/offset.

So the offset, does the CTEL line fall directly in front of you, as it would if you were standing on a tightrope? Or does the line juke off to the right? (for left cuts).

Can (attempt to) post more images if my description is unclear.

As much as I would like to pay Stan a visit for a 1on1, I can't afford the time or the money

 

[LAMas]

Been working with Pro One off and on for about a year. The off and on is due to frustrations in understanding.

I spoke with Stan over the phone about a month ago and he was able to help me out. But there are still areas that I am struggling with.

Right now my current question is in regards to ball address and establishing visuals and getting my eyes in the right spot. I've attempted to make some diagrams to show my perspective and what it is I am doing. I do not know if this is correct or not, as not all of the shots I make have the desired results.

That's what I want clarification on.
Also, if Stan could chime in and tell me his definition of a "fixed cue ball" that I see in a lot of his posts, that would be appreciated.

Ok diagrams.

Right handed. Right eye dominant.



This is how things look when I have chosen a shot. This is exactly what it looks like from my perspective at ball address.

I see this is somewhat of a thick cut to the left. So I then kind of shift my head to the left, and with this I get the CTE perspective. In this instance, Center CB to Right OB Edge. And I decide on aim point A and visualize that line.

Once I have those 2 lines, my eyes move down and to the left (mine always move left for left cuts and right for right cuts...) to a spot on the cue that is between the center-to-edge line and the edge-to-aimpoint.

From there, I don't really yet know how to describe what I do, as I can not tell the difference between left and right sweeps/pivots.

When talking with Stan, I described what I was doing as best as I could. One thing that I was doing, that he said not to do, was physically stand on the CTE line at ball address. Since then I have stopped and have had a bit more success than I previously was.

Very nice pictures now.

Do you leave your body/stance in the CTE line position as you move your eye/s...what has changed for you?

 

[nobcitypool]

Look at the DVD again. Stan specifically discusses the offset in the first few chapters. You can't properly get your visuals standing directly behind the CTE line. You must be offset to this line. That's why I think practicing straight in shots help with this. You can actually see the offset and by watching the CB and OB, see how much you need to move to bring the two in line.

 

[Vhal]

Very nice pictures now.

Do you leave your body/stance in the CTE line position as you move your eye/s...what has changed for you?

Currently, I line up my body and feet on the center CB to center OB line, and then I kinda shift my head to the left to get a straight on CTE line.

Before doing this, I would line up my body/stance on the CTE line. This was how I interpreted the "offset". But Stan told me it was incorrect to stand on the CTE line.

 

[LAMas]

Vahl,
What is the red spot on the CB?
With the visuals and stance (where are your feet) per the shot you so nicely diagrammed
do you make the shot or miss to the right or the left?

It looks like the secondary aim line is at "A" (1/4). Can you so diagram for "B" (1/2), "C" (3/4)" and 1/8 (/7/8) ...and diagram where the OB goes for you? It should get progressively thinner...I guess.

If you are consistent, then you can adjust for those cut angles in between using the side of the ferrule instead of the center of the cue or a slight ferrule shift and slight pivot.

Thanks in advance...great diagrams.

 

[gazman100]

Your images are very good.
You only need to move your visuals slightly to the left of the cte line and then cue tip to the center of your new visuals. Try to image the cte line coming towards you as you move either side.
Hope it helps.
As Stan has all ways said a thousand times it is the slightest movement.
Also I've found maintaining visuals is critial as you go to center cue ball.
Hope it helps

 

[nobcitypool]

Currently, I line up my body and feet on the center CB to center OB line, and then I kinda shift my head to the left to get a straight on CTE line.

Before doing this, I would line up my body/stance on the CTE line. This was how I interpreted the "offset". But Stan told me it was incorrect to stand on the CTE line.

I found it works better, for me at least, to be more offset to the left and be further behind the balls so that I can step in. I didn't think this at first and found myself all too often all tied up like a pretzel when I moved in for my shot. I've also found being a little further away from the CB makes it easier for me to acquire the proper visual. I've also found that simply moving my head around isn't the best either, the body needs to align with the head and eyes, so it needs to move with the head. I want my random movement to occur before and up to getting my visual. I want the move into CCB to be as consistent and precise as possible.

Again, use a laser to set up some hole reinforcers from one corner pocket to the diagonal opposite. Take care to be precise with this. I practice 2 diamonds and 3 diamonds apart. Practice both CTE, ETA and CTE, ETC for this. Hold your position after you shoot. Practice follow, stop and draw. What happened to the CB? If it goes off one direction or the other, that means it didn't hit the center of the OB in line with the pocket. Is your cue stick in line? If not, either your stroke is off or your aim was. If you are consistently hitting the OB to the right on CTE/ETA, start experimenting a bit with your move into the ball to tweak this into line. If you can consistently hit the OB into center pocket, draw the CB back in line (or follow it to the pocket) and your cue stick is in line towards the center of the pocket after your stroke, you can assume you're doing most things right.

Problem with cut shots is it's not as straight forward to analyze what went wrong. The straight in shot gives you that feedback. The visual, move into the ball and stroke are essentially the same for a cut shot. Get the straight shot down and then you can take that to thick cut shots. Get those down and then you expand from there.

Once again, make sure your stroke is straight. You can't make the system work with a flawed stroke. I found that out and took a few steps back to focus on a straight stroke. I still work drills on that daily. How do you know if your visual or move into the all is right or wrong if you're not stroking it straight?

 

[Vhal]

Vahl,
What is the red spot on the CB?
With the visuals and stance (where are your feet) per the shot you so nicely diagrammed
do you make the shot or miss to the right or the left?

It looks like the secondary aim line is at "A" (1/4). Can you so diagram for "B" (1/2), "C" (3/4)" and 1/8 (/7/8) ...and diagram where the OB goes for you? It should get progressively thinner...I guess.

If you are consistent, then you can adjust for those cut angles in between using the side of the ferrule instead of the center of the cue or a slight ferrule shift and slight pivot.

Thanks in advance...great diagrams.

In this instance, the red spot is where my eyes focus on after I get the CTE and the ETA visual.

At ball address, lately I have been standing on the center CB to center OB line, then moving just my head (and eyes) where I see the CTE line straight in front of me (second image in my original post).

From reading the feedback, it sounds like I need to (for left cuts) move my head/eyes a little further left so as I dont see the CTE line straight in front of me but more so at a bit of an angle, doing this instead places ETA a bit more in front of me.

Tried to diagram it.

Also, let me know if theres any other diagrams I can make to try to further illustrate this. I know its difficult to explain how you see and perceive things to others.

 

[Vhal]

Edge to A, B and C

Heres one with a little extra offset to the CTE right, and Edge to A, B and C.

Might have to start using PNG images, JPGs are blurring a bit heh.

 

[nobcitypool]

You don't need to build in more offset to your visual. You need your body to be offset. Big difference.

 

[Vhal]

You don't need to build in more offset to your visual. You need your body to be offset. Big difference.

So its cool to keep my visual that uses the CTE line thats straight in front of me? (pic 2 of original post) I just did a few experiments using the visual offset and it didnt work out too well.

 

[nobcitypool]

The offset Stan references is your body, not the visual.

 

[Vhal]

Well, for a cut to the left, for the most part my body is to the left of the CTE line, and I usually have my back right foot on this line.


I think I have a better understanding of the offset and stance thing.

Would you say that I am correct in where my eyes are going when it comes time to focus on the cue ball? Take the second and third pics I posted, I find ETA and follow it from the A on the OB to the front of the cue ball that is facing me, and usually the spot I focus on when I move in to shoot is a spot between the CTE and ETA.