Pro Pool vs Pro Golf TV Productions

Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
PGA golf events have the beautiful backdrop of nature, large cheering crowds and great camera placement, BUT at times the weather changes everything.
In pro pool, this is where Our Sport has a Huge advantage in a well-lit arena, we can see/feel, the human nature ''in the moment''.
I love (the front page AZ camera shots of players faces/up CLOSE).
In the pit/pro 9' foot table 9 ball arena, the lighting is waaaaaaaaaay better/closer than any golf camera or 12' Snooker table.
It allows the cameras to get ''extremely close'' to the players facial expressions ''Body Language''.
Because of that, ones character and pain is available for us all to see.
We're all animals, and the closer we get to the ''man in the mirror'' the more the moment is ''real'' and felt.
Like Gorillas sitting around eating in the jungle, the look at each other, and their actions/reactions.
The front pages of AZ are doing player close ups, Good JOB!
Mike H. I like it!!!!!!!!!!
bm
 
Island Drive said:
PGA golf events have the beautiful backdrop of nature, large cheering crowds and great camera placement, BUT at times the weather changes everything.
In pro pool, this is where Our Sport has a Huge advantage in a well-lit arena, we can see/feel, the human nature ''in the moment''.
I love (the front page AZ camera shots of players faces/up CLOSE).
In the pit/pro 9' foot table 9 ball arena, the lighting is waaaaaaaaaay better/closer than any golf camera or 12' Snooker table.
It allows the cameras to get ''extremely close'' to the players facial expressions ''Body Language''.
Because of that, ones character and pain is available for us all to see.
We're all animals, and the closer we get to the ''man in the mirror'' the more the moment is ''real'' and felt.
Like Gorillas sitting around eating in the jungle, the look at each other, and their actions/reactions.
The front pages of AZ are doing player close ups, Good JOB!
Mike H. I like it!!!!!!!!!!
bm
Click to expand...
Disadvantage is that you typically have one match and the fans have to see all the dead time. Shot clocks try to minimize this but in pool fans have to see more relatively boring stuff than in golf.

It is more dramatic to watch a golf telecast than to try to follow the action in person because the producer can show you a stellar moment on 17 while the leader is bunkered on 12 for example. A fan on 14 is oblivious.

Back in the day tee times were not assigned like now for the final rounds- the leaders didn’t always go out last. TV came along and the system was changed. This changes the sport itself to some degree if only because the guys first out get smoother greens generally. TV producers learned how to show the sport and some are better than others. Compare the BBC feed for the Open with a Masters telecast. Different approaches.

I don’t work in TV but my one experience was as a high school kid working as a spotter for ABC at a PGA Championship. They hired temps gave us a headset and sent us to a location on the course. You had to tell the guys in the truck what was going on so they could show stars/leaders etc… and get golf shots on TV live. So you had to know the order of play and the producers had to make judgments as to what to cut to. We didn’t hear all the discussion. But what I did hear made me think it was miraculous that golf telecasts made it to the airwaves. Between the yelling, profanities, and gambling fans still see a tournament. Those guys knew the players and pre shot routines and judged how long they had to show a shot while another player was getting ready to play. And could set what sounded like an accurate line on whether a player would make a putt. When I see an old clip of Jim McKay talking at a tournament I marvel at the contrast of what made it to the screen.

When my day was done the leaders had 6 holes to play. You couldn’t follow the action that well in person. A friend and I found a black and white TV in the cart barn and watched the end.

Poker has the hole card cam. Golf has stroke play where the leaders go last. Pool might need something that changes the broadcast. Maybe there is nothing that will catch the fancy of the masses. But maybe there is. Pool has more to offer than some of the stuff on TV as we know here.
 
Some good points JP, but some courses rain all day, and players Have to play thru it, windy/cold/damp, spectators don't enjoy it.
If you wanna watch your favorite player at a certain hole putting, and your short or get to the green late/good luck, unless you carry your periscope. Both sports have allot of different advantages, but this game can be player ANYWHERE on the planet if there's a tarp over it and some light.
You don't even need electricity during the day time, in the jungle with enough light.
I wouldn't be surprised if/when this Donkey starts rolling, we'll see many Snooker pros hop on.
MR is working it.
Pool is NOT expensive like golf either.
Darn, forgot to charge the cart battery. ;)



bm
 
Island Drive said:
Some good points JP, but some courses rain all day, and players Have to play thru it, windy/cold/damp, spectators don't enjoy it.
If you wanna watch your favorite player at a certain hole putting, and your short or get to the green late/good luck, unless you carry your periscope. Both sports have allot of different advantages, but this game can be player ANYWHERE on the planet if there's a tarp over it and some light.
You don't even need electricity during the day time, in the jungle with enough light.
I wouldn't be surprised if/when this Donkey starts rolling, we'll see many Snooker pros hop on.
MR is working it.
Pool is NOT expensive like golf either.
Darn, forgot to charge the cart battery. ;)



bm
Click to expand...
Agree with what you say but for the most part golf goes on schedule and players play through the weather. When they can’t it does ruin a telecast. For fans in person I think pool has many advantages. Another example is football. I’ll sit through horrid weather to watch my kid play. But pay serious money to watch an NFL game in bad weather? I’m too old and too tired. The couch at home is way better. I think that’s why the new stadiums seem to seat not quite as many. They sell out but make soooo much on the TV contract.

A sport I think suffers is NASCAR. I am not a big fan but any chance they had to get me as a casual fan was ruined by the fact the races are at different times and they can’t race in weather. For the casual fan turning on the TV for a big race and seeing a rain out ruins it. The devoted fan knows the schedule and tolerates it. The NFL has consistant time slots and they play in weather or indoors. College hoops can fit in perfect time slots for TV- another consideration.

If pool finds a formula that attracts more casual fans it would be great.
 
JPB2 said:
Disadvantage is that you typically have one match and the fans have to see all the dead time. Shot clocks try to minimize this but in pool fans have to see more relatively boring stuff than in golf.

It is more dramatic to watch a golf telecast than to try to follow the action in person because the producer can show you a stellar moment on 17 while the leader is bunkered on 12 for example. A fan on 14 is oblivious.

Back in the day tee times were not assigned like now for the final rounds- the leaders didn’t always go out last. TV came along and the system was changed. This changes the sport itself to some degree if only because the guys first out get smoother greens generally. TV producers learned how to show the sport and some are better than others. Compare the BBC feed for the Open with a Masters telecast. Different approaches.

I don’t work in TV but my one experience was as a high school kid working as a spotter for ABC at a PGA Championship. They hired temps gave us a headset and sent us to a location on the course. You had to tell the guys in the truck what was going on so they could show stars/leaders etc… and get golf shots on TV live. So you had to know the order of play and the producers had to make judgments as to what to cut to. We didn’t hear all the discussion. But what I did hear made me think it was miraculous that golf telecasts made it to the airwaves. Between the yelling, profanities, and gambling fans still see a tournament. Those guys knew the players and pre shot routines and judged how long they had to show a shot while another player was getting ready to play. And could set what sounded like an accurate line on whether a player would make a putt. When I see an old clip of Jim McKay talking at a tournament I marvel at the contrast of what made it to the screen.

When my day was done the leaders had 6 holes to play. You couldn’t follow the action that well in person. A friend and I found a black and white TV in the cart barn and watched the end.

Poker has the hole card cam. Golf has stroke play where the leaders go last. Pool might need something that changes the broadcast. Maybe there is nothing that will catch the fancy of the masses. But maybe there is. Pool has more to offer than some of the stuff on TV as we know here.
Click to expand...

I think Matchroom should address the dead time issue by doing a good job cutting to other tables and giving the commentators better access to what is happening across the tournament. This doesn’t help with the final of course.
 
Golf (on TV) has the advantage that you can keep track of 14 players over the whole day of golfing.

You get 5 seconds of swing and ball flight, then they switch to a different group so as to not waste time while the player looks at the table, chalks his cue, looks at the table again, chalks his cue again, and decides on what shot to attempt. Golf on TV avoids that--pool on TV should too !!
 
MitchAlsup said:
Golf (on TV) has the advantage that you can keep track of 14 players over the whole day of golfing.

You get 5 seconds of swing and ball flight, then they switch to a different group so as to not waste time while the player looks at the table, chalks his cue, looks at the table again, chalks his cue again, and decides on what shot to attempt. Golf on TV avoids that--pool on TV should too !!
Click to expand...
With coverage similar to golf, the viewer will get to see every great shot / interesting shot in a tourney , even those awesome Hail Mary's made by dead money that will never make it final rounds. rounds.

Watching the pros play connect the dots rack after rack will never appeal to the casual fan. They're watching for entertainment, not because of admiration.
 
Watching golf on TV, you get to see the swing+ all the emotion. And of course the Result.

Pool?? Not so much. Sometimes you see the player line up and get set, Then the camera shifts to a close up of the cue tip, then just before the stroke the camera shifts to a close up on the intended pocket. Sometimes there's a camera inside the pockets so you can see the ball drop in. How instructive was that?

The cameramen and producers have little knowledge of the game,
I have to assume, they want to focus on some drama. A ball dropping in a pocket isn't full of suspense.
The ball dropping in a pocket is not drama. Pro players sink them or not.

Their approach, setup and execution is what I want to see.

It'll never happen. I'll never stop complaining.

I want to see how the game is played.

Not likely I'm sure.
 
MitchAlsup said:
Golf (on TV) has the advantage that you can keep track of 14 players over the whole day of golfing.

You get 5 seconds of swing and ball flight, then they switch to a different group so as to not waste time while the player looks at the table, chalks his cue, looks at the table again, chalks his cue again, and decides on what shot to attempt. Golf on TV avoids that--pool on TV should too !!
Click to expand...
I agree that the production of today's golf TV programming would be a viable format for a pool tournament. As mentioned, I'm not sure of how to do a final table of 2 players unless a lot of 'past' footage was somehow incorporated into it. I'd love to see it.
 
Pocket Change said:
I agree that the production of today's golf TV programming would be a viable format for a pool tournament. As mentioned, I'm not sure of how to do a final table of 2 players unless a lot of 'past' footage was somehow incorporated into it. I'd love to see it.
Click to expand...
Race to 37 games, and produce back into a 1 hour time slot.
get rid of the waiting around thinking, chalking, walking around the table,...
get rid of the cue changes, extensions, obtaining bridges,...
Instantaneous racks--literally 3 seconds after that last ball drops, a new rack is being broken.
take time to position cameras to get the whole shot--even if this takes 24 cameras on the one table--just keep them out of sight.
Have announcers that know the game and the players
Weave some narrative into the match after the result is known
 
MitchAlsup said:
Race to 37 games, and produce back into a 1 hour time slot.
get rid of the waiting around thinking, chalking, walking around the table,...
get rid of the cue changes, extensions, obtaining bridges,...
Instantaneous racks--literally 3 seconds after that last ball drops, a new rack is being broken.
take time to position cameras to get the whole shot--even if this takes 24 cameras on the one table--just keep them out of sight.
Have announcers that know the game and the players
Weave some narrative into the match after the result is known
Click to expand...
That sounds methed up.
 
Cuedup said:
I see the "filler material" being produced segments on how the players got there and who the players are. Growing an audience requires building stars.
Click to expand...
This is good. I can’t stand some of the over the top stuff at the Olympics but they do a good job of trying to build interest in an obscure sport people don’t get to play. For instance a human interest piece on an athlete in luge or biathlon.

Here’s an idea that may or may not work. An on course reporter for pool. In addition to the announcers in the booth a knowledgeable player is on the floor with a setup he can talk into without the players hearing. I think they have this for some broadcasts or interpreters. This person would have the right to look at a shot from different angles just like the player and better describe the situation. You’d have to give the player more time on a shot clock maybe, because the reporter would get to look at the shot from behind and in front but get out of the way so the player could play. This would allow a better description of the shot like “ he has a quarter ball in the way and has to jump or swerve..” and avoids the problem of the booth not having an accurate view. Like “he only has half a pocket…oh he had a full pocket” after the shot. Think of how many times an on course announcer has described how impossible a shot is and then have a great player hit a great one. It adds to the drama. And if they can’t pull it off the viewer knows why. Don’t know if it would work in pool and you’d need the right guy doing it.
 
MitchAlsup said:
Race to 37 games, and produce back into a 1 hour time slot.
get rid of the waiting around thinking, chalking, walking around the table,...
get rid of the cue changes, extensions, obtaining bridges,...
Instantaneous racks--literally 3 seconds after that last ball drops, a new rack is being broken.
take time to position cameras to get the whole shot--even if this takes 24 cameras on the one table--just keep them out of sight.
Have announcers that know the game and the players
Weave some narrative into the match after the result is known
Click to expand...
That might be a bit aggressive but I do agree most matches proceed too slowly.
 
Evolving any new enterprise takes time.
I've heard before that MR has gotten Snooker about 30-40% right.
The 9-ball animal has MR's experience dealing with snooker players, and that is saying allot.
In all individual sports, where money is in play, the cats act very similar until the association is able to control them by $$$$$$$.
They then start to listen and follow the rules of play.
During the Camel pro years, it was the FIRST time I ever saw American Pool Players listen to the promoter and zip their lip. $$$$$$$$$$
I've been waiting since ABC wide world of sports showed up at Janscos/Johnston City and the Frank McGowan TV years.
So those that complain/That want it Naaaaaaaaow, don't rush it, your very fortunate to have MR and not Camel cigarettes supporting 9 ball.
Anyone that's raised children, understand what it takes to get it right.
Soon another Bata will come along and catch the imagination of NON pool players, tv viewers.

Then the ball, will really roll up Hill.
bm
 
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Pool is boring to watch, the enviroment is stable. Whereas golf the weather changes things. I can hit 100 shots in pool and get the same result 100 times. Golf wind and humidity effect things and that makes it interesting. Maybe if we had tables like golf greens pool could be interesting
 
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