Proper etiquette for flagging slow play

[lfigueroa]

In a tournament recently, I noticed a player playing ridiculously slowly, at least a couple of minutes for a routine shot. This was consistent during the match.
At the end of this 2 and a half hour race to seven (it was probably closer to 3 hours and there were a total of 11 racks played in the match) the losing player congratulated the victor, but also mentioned to the victor that he should probably increase the pace of his game.
The victor of course said that it was a case of sour grapes and that he was just being a bad loser.

What should the loser have done? Bearing in mind that threats to be "put on the clock", were mentioned at the beginning of the tournament, but I have never seen it enforced.

You have to be prepared to make a compelling case to the TD.

If you get "a slow one" put the stop watch on him yourself. After three or four shots where he's racked up time per shot that is out of whack with other players in the event, you go up to the TD and present your evidence: actual minutes/seconds the guy is taking per shot. IOW, it's not so good to go say someone is "playing slow" because that can easily be dismissed as perception. Instead, go to the TD and say, "I just put the clock on the guy I'm playing and he took: four minutes, three and half minutes, and five minutes for his last three shots" and you're more likely to get a better outcome.

Of course, not all TDs are created equal. And some guys will go out of their way not to piss anyone off with a slow play ruling.

Lou Figueroa

 

[thommy]

Anyone consider just saying,
"Hey dumbass, hurry up and shoot the f#cking ball!"?

 

[PoolBum]

At the end of this 2 and a half hour race to seven (it was probably closer to 3 hours and there were a total of 11 racks played in the match) the losing player congratulated the victor, but also mentioned to the victor that he should probably increase the pace of his game.

When someone takes that long to shoot my standard approach is to ease up behind them as they are about to shoot, then yell right in their ear, "Shoot the f*%*in shot already!!"

This usually doesn't make them shoot any more quickly, but for some reason it does make me feel a little bit better.

 

[porper-sig]

In a game of one pocket some slow play in critical situations is fine. All other games should be quick.

 

[thommy]

In a game of one pocket some slow play in critical situations is fine. All other games should be quick.

Yeah, other games should be 6 times as fast!!
'cause ya got 6 times as many pockets!!

 

[Oklahoma Kid]

This is my personal preference. If it takes you that long to take a shot then it is surely the humane thing to do.

I get pretty annoyed with posts like that treat human life so cavalierly.

Life is short. Ambulances can take a long time to show up, and the police interviews alone, just to determine that this action was justified, will eat up a good chunk of your evening.

This is all time that you could have been shooting pool instead.

 

[ridewiththewind]

I think I know who you are talking about...........but I heard he beat the guy half to death with a cueball because of a cheating girlfriend.......would like to hear the whole story. Guy was a pretty good pool player but damn did he have a temper, lol

This could very well be.....I can't imagine he can keep a gf, the guy is dangerous. But yes, there was no reason for the extremely slow play, because the guy can shoot. Yeah, the guy does need some serious anger management therapy.

 

[Ghosst]

This could very well be.....I can't imagine he can keep a gf, the guy is dangerous. But yes, there was no reason for the extremely slow play, because the guy can shoot. Yeah, the guy does need some serious anger management therapy.

And yet girls date this guy? Sounds like a prize...

But anyways, yes, Eric looked pretty twitchy in that match and the commentator mentioned some "demons" he'd have to overcome. I think his demons are just poor manners, but I'm Canadian and we're a little off up here in the land of permanent snow.

 

[TheThaiger]

And yet, girls love this stuff?! Weird...

Don't tell Sean!

 

[sfleinen]

Don't tell Sean!

Yes, Tim, I'll come to the aid of every female because, after all, this thread has "everything to do with" the other thread about whether women can become just as good as men in the sport of pool. We're really reaching, aren't we?

Weak attempt, but I'll give you a "nice try" anyway, because I'm a nice guy.

-Sean

 

[Ghosst]

Actually I had to reword that so we don't get off-track...

 

[sfleinen]

Actually I had to reword that so we don't get off-track...

Thanks, Ghosst. I also thought that poke at me -- stemming from his frustrations at me pulling the rug out from under him in another thread -- was uncalled for here in this thread.

Getting back on track, I agree with Lou's approach. When I managed the 8-ball league at Boston Billiards (the now-defunct Danbury, CT branch), I made it a point to tell the captains to tell their team not to come to me with accusations of slow play. Give me specifics. In fact, I had a stop watch on hand precisely for this purpose. As soon as a team captain came up to me with accusations of slow play, I put it back on him/her to give me something to go on -- I handed them the stopwatch with instructions to give me examples.

Many times, the accusations were unfounded. But there were several notable players that failed the stop watch test every time, and the captain would come back with a sheet of paper with five or six shots on it, that were timed to be 4 minutes and change here, 3 minutes and change there, etc. Only then I would get involved, putting the player on the clock, and calling foul when necessary.

-Sean

 

[ridewiththewind]

And yet girls date this guy? Sounds like a prize...

I don't think girls love this stuff...to reference your pre-edited post. Abusers are very good at manipulating their victims. The women think they love them...and the abuser convinces them it's all their fault.

This particular individual is/was very dangerous...took nothing at all to set him off.

 

[Ghosst]

Abusers are very good at manipulating their victims...

This would make for an interesting conversation on FB, but not in a slow-play thread. PM me if you want to discuss it there on in NPR. I'd be happy to reply.

Sean, I thought I was a slow player until I watched the Edwin/Eric video. I have never in my life seen a slower match. 3 hours for a race to 7 on a beer box. I will never be that slow, nor will I play speed pool. Somewhere in the middle; methodical, but not painful.

 

[ridewiththewind]

This would make for an interesting conversation on FB, but not in a slow-play thread. PM me if you want to discuss it there on in NPR. I'd be happy to reply.

Sean, I thought I was a slow player until I watched the Edwin/Eric video. I have never in my life seen a slower match. 3 hours for a race to 7 on a beer box. I will never be that slow, nor will I play speed pool. Somewhere in the middle; methodical, but not painful.

My bad....I now direct you to our scheduled topic...

 

[FastManners]

This is completely the fault of the TD. The TD's job is not to just assign matches. It's to moniter them as well. The TD should have noticed that this one match was falling behind the others and should have sent someone or gone himself to time the time between shots. If play was too slow he should have then issued a warning followed by either disciplinary action or, if it's the policy, put the match on a shot clock.

The TD's job is to protect the players by staying alert and aware. It doesn't matter whether or not the slow player is a nice person and isn't doing it intentionally. This kind of thing hurts an entire tournament and puts a number of matches way behind schedule and can delay the tournament for hours. That can lead to the tournament going much later than expected and cause inconvenience to the players and the room owner.

It's unfortunate when a slow play issue winds up resting in the hands of the opponent, who has done nothing wrong, to do something about it. I react in different ways when it happens to me, depending on how I feel at the time. Sometimes I will stop the game and alert the TD. I'm sorry if it hurts my opponent's feelings but it's unfair to play so slow and that player doesn't belong in a tournament until he learns to play at a more reasonable pace.

I completely agree with this course of action.

 

[TheThaiger]

Thanks, Ghosst. I also thought that poke at me -- stemming from his frustrations at me pulling the rug out from under him in another thread -- was uncalled for here in this thread.

Christ, the long winter evenings must simply fly by in the Fleinen household.

As for the rest of your post, do you keep a clipboard by any chance? I imagine you do. Along with a spare.

 

[Ghosst]

Don't make me start posting pictures...

 

[TheThaiger]

Sorry. Carry on.

 

[sfleinen]

Christ, the long winter evenings must simply fly by in the Fleinen household.

As for the rest of your post, do you keep a clipboard by any chance? I imagine you do. Along with a spare.

Ah, I see -- the famous Thaiger exaggeration rears its head yet again. Dude, you posted in that other thread, and literally a minute later in this thread. I didn't need a clipboard for my league administrator duties, but again, in the spirit of charity, "nice try." You're probably projecting upon me your need to use a clipboard, though, hence why you even bring up this silly notion.

Pulling this thread back on track yet again, I noticed that in many of the "slow play complaints" that I got while league administrator at Boston Billiards, that it was more due to either A.) a player's slow pace around the table shot-to-shot (but once stepped in line with the shot, the player got down on it and fired at normal speed), or B.) the player was fidgety -- Charlie Williams fidgety. I.e. got down on the shot, fidgeted for a bit, got back up, maybe had a look/see at something else, got down on the shot, popped back up again, got down on it, etc. That drove some players batty, and a trip to the front desk to complain about "slow play." Timing it with a stop watch, the player took less than 45 or at most, 60 seconds to shoot. Not at all bad in the grand scheme of things. Not anywhere like 4 or 5 minutes, like the particular match this thread is about.

-Sean <-- last name's Leinen, btw, Tim.