Quantify the abrasive surface of various tip tools

dogloose

dogloose

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There are many tip tools on the market with permanent abrasive surfaces. Among them are Willards, Cue Shark PUP, Kamui Gator Grip, Brad's, Cuetec, Cue Cube, etc. Does anyone know if these permanent type surfaces are advertised or have had their abrasiveness quantified compared to say good old sandpaper? Can any be described for example as closer to 80 grit? or 150? or 220?
 
Try this

Hold them beside each other & give it your best guess.

SLIM
 
Thank you Captain Obvious... I don't have them in front of me to compare. Anyone ever do this?
 
dogloose said:
There are many tip tools on the market with permanent abrasive surfaces. Among them are Willards, Cue Shark PUP, Kamui Gator Grip, Brad's, Cuetec, Cue Cube, etc. Does anyone know if these permanent type surfaces are advertised or have had their abrasiveness quantified compared to say good old sandpaper? Can any be described for example as closer to 80 grit? or 150? or 220?
Click to expand...
Willards seems close to 80 grit to me. I've had my Willards for at least five years still going strong, don't wear out like sandpaper.
 
I bought a Brad Scuffer from EBay some time ago.
I don't know if the original Brad was as abrasive as the one I got.
All I know is that you could shape a piece of rebar with it.
I wouldn't try it on any tip I use. I did try it on a house cue once.
I kinda of felt afterward as the Brad absolutely shredded the tip.

I don't know if there is a grit of sandpaper that you could compare it to.
Maybe a chain saw.
Oh well, it is a round disc and made a nice Frisbee as it went off the second floor
stairs of the old pool hall.
 
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LOL Blue Hog... I'd like to see you shaping rebar with that chain saw! So a Brad scuffer sounds way more abrasive than a Willard. Is there a scientific way to measure this stuff... do any manufacturers make a claim as to their product's equivalent rating?
 
Why does the specific grit count matter?

i would bet if you ask some of the old carom players they would tell you a fine file works best.
I know of several pros that use plain old sandpaper, it looked to be about 320 grit.
If you are looking for advice on what to use, try several different things & go with what works best for you.

Have a good one,

SLIM
 
I also have a curved Sandman and a curved shaper that has a handle on it. The handle shaper is somewhat the shape of a small hair brush.
Both are very good quality. I can dig up the link to the hair brush one later if you'd like to see what they look like. The brush shaped one also has some other doo dads on it. Small enuff to fit comfortably in a case pocket too.

I can dig them up and give you a close reference to grit.

The Sandman seems like it has sharp pointed little teeth on it and is a bit more aggressive
than a Willards. Works well, you just have to use it a little softer than you would a Willard or you could also tear up a tip quickly.
For the initial shaping of a new undomed tip, it works fine.
 
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I would say that in general the tip tools are in the 80-100 grit range.

But sandpaper comes in multiple grades--Carbide (really hard), Corundum (hard), Alumina (medium), and garnet (soft) depending on the properties one wants in the sanding.
 
Apparently the Kamui Gator Grip is the least abrasive of all. Anyone know much about these?
 
The Willards shaper seems rougher than many, but much more durable...nothing comes off the surface, lasts forever. Mine is over 20 years old and just as good as when I bought it. As rough as it is, I still have to work pretty hard to take much off the tip, so I wouldn't say it's too rough.
 
dogloose said:
Apparently the Kamui Gator Grip is the least abrasive of all. Anyone know much about these?
Click to expand...

It has to be less abrasive, because it's designed for layered tips, including the Kamui soft tips, which a more abrasive tip tool would probably cause delamination if not used properly. If I'm not mistaken, the Kamui Gator grip implements fine metal-oxide particulates bonded to a hard stainless steel surface. Basically a much, MUCH finer version of the Williards shaper.

It greatly minimizes the chance to "grab" and lift the edges of the layers in a layered tip (known as "delamination"). And because it's based on metal-oxide particulates bonded to a metal surface, it cleans easily and doesn't "lose grains" like sandpaper does. (Note: sandpaper is as its name implies -- grains of sand bonded to paper or fabric. Because the medium -- paper/fabric -- is flexible, the bond of the grains of sand to the paper/fabric doesn't last long when they're rubbed against the material they're cutting. The glue breaks, and grains of sand tend to dislodge and fall away, leaving exposed paper/fabric in their wake. Sandpaper needs to be continually replaced because of this loss of abrasive. The Kamui Gator Grip's hard steel "backbone" doesn't flex, and thus bond-breakage is greatly minimized.)

I've seen these as early as last year when they were announced, and again this year at SBE. It's a well-made tool, ergonomic, and looks like one of those "buy it once, and you won't have to buy it ever again [save theft]" because it's an investment.

I'm going to pick one of these up myself. I'm not a layered tip guy (I prefer one-piece tips, like Elkmaster), but I *do* have a few cues I've inherited that had layered tips already on them (e.g. Tiger Sniper, Tiger Emerald). This is a purpose-built tool for tip maintenance on those cues.

I hope this is helpful,
-Sean
 
Cue Cube, not so permanent. I had mine for less than a year, used it maybe less than a dozen times, the surface is way smoother than it was. It feels like I'm using a worn out piece of chalk on my tip more than a tip tool.

IMHO, the best tip tool is the "Ultimate Tip Tool", has everything you need, has a good tapper/rougher, replacable sandpaper shapers, burnisher (although people have reported their tips popping off when using that). Got a new one on the way to me, I miss having one, lost 2 of them over the years.
 
sfleinen said:
The Kamui Gator Grip's hard steel "backbone" doesn't flex, and thus bond-breakage is greatly minimized.)[/I]

I'm going to pick one of these up myself. I'm not a layered tip guy (I prefer one-piece tips, like Elkmaster), but I *do* have a few cues I've inherited that had layered tips already on them (e.g. Tiger Sniper, Tiger Emerald). This is a purpose-built tool for tip maintenance on those cues.

I hope this is helpful,
-Sean
Click to expand...


I use one on my triangle tips instead of a tip pik. IMHO it seems to do a better job of ruffing up the tip and that ruffness seems to last much longer. Six to eight hours of play versus one to two hours of play.
 
It has to be less abrasive, because it's designed for layered tips, including the Kamui soft tips, which a more abrasive tip tool would probably cause delamination if not used properly. If I'm not mistaken, the Kamui Gator grip implements fine metal-oxide particulates bonded to a hard stainless steel surface. Basically a much, MUCH finer version of the Williards shaper.

It greatly minimizes the chance to "grab" and lift the edges of the layers in a layered tip (known as "delamination"). And because it's based on metal-oxide particulates bonded to a metal surface, it cleans easily and doesn't "lose grains" like sandpaper does. (Note: sandpaper is as its name implies -- grains of sand bonded to paper or fabric. Because the medium -- paper/fabric -- is flexible, the bond of the grains of sand to the paper/fabric doesn't last long when they're rubbed against the material they're cutting. The glue breaks, and grains of sand tend to dislodge and fall away, leaving exposed paper/fabric in their wake. Sandpaper needs to be continually replaced because of this loss of abrasive. The Kamui Gator Grip's hard steel "backbone" doesn't flex, and thus bond-breakage is greatly minimized.)
Click to expand...

The finer abrasive quality and construction of the Kamui Gator Grip sounds like it may be the best tool with a permanent surface for ROUGHING up a laminated tip... Is it abrasive enough to re-shape a tip (take material off?) What is the best tool out there to SHAPE a laminated tip (short of owning and operating a lathe)? Will using some of the more aggressive abrasive tools destroy an expensive tip, or is it all technique?
 
Mezz Professional Tip Tool

dogloose said:
The finer abrasive quality and construction of the Kamui Gator Grip sounds like it may be the best tool with a permanent surface for ROUGHING up a laminated tip... Is it abrasive enough to re-shape a tip (take material off?) What is the best tool out there to SHAPE a laminated tip (short of owning and operating a lathe)? Will using some of the more aggressive abrasive tools destroy an expensive tip, or is it all technique?
Click to expand...

dogloose:

Just as an update to my previous post #12 above, I ended up purchasing the Mezz Professional Tip Tool shown here:

http://mezzcues.us/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=15
main%20tip%20tool.jpg

What's nice about this tool, is that on the same stainless steel backbone, it includes various abrasive grades, and even a few concentric (depression) areas for shaping the tip. It's also ergonomic and conforms to your hand better than the Kamui Gator Grip.

At the same SBE where I saw the Kamui Gator Grip, I saw the Mezz tool, and I was kinda torn. Finally made my mind up, and the Mezz tool it is.

Hope this helps answer your question!
-Sean
 
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