Question about cue performance ?

[smokeandapancak]

I have having a hard time wrapping my noodle around this

Alow me to preface the following question with this :
I have never played a low deflection shaft or any make, model, or kind.

From what I get the idea behind low delfection shafts is that the tip moves away from the ball on contact instead of pushing thru the CB and transfering that force from the stiff shaft onto the CB. At its most basic level we are saying that the tip deflects instead the ball..... Right?

Here is my question ... would'nt a "whippy " shaft produce the same effect? Something like an old Mooch with a fishing pole shaft.... once that hits the CB wouldnt it move the tip out of the way in much the same fashion as a 314?...

So what is the big difference in performance between the two...?

 

[mikepage]

I have having a hard time wrapping my noodle around this

Alow me to preface the following question with this :
I have never played a low deflection shaft or any make, model, or kind.

From what I get the idea behind low delfection shafts is that the tip moves away from the ball on contact instead of pushing thru the CB and transfering that force from the stiff shaft onto the CB. At its most basic level we are saying that the tip deflects instead the ball..... Right?

Here is my question ... would'nt a "whippy " shaft produce the same effect? Something like an old Mooch with a fishing pole shaft.... once that hits the CB wouldnt it move the tip out of the way in much the same fashion as a 314?...

So what is the big difference in performance between the two...?

The difference is in the motion that happens during the 1 or 2 millisecond contact between the tip and the ball. During this short time there is only asmall amount of sideways motion, a couple millimeters. The Mooch resists this sideways motion more than the 314 not because of a difference in flexibility but rather because of a difference in mass of the front few inches of the shaft that is doing most of the moving.

After the ball is gone, the Mooch will keep bending...and keep bending...and then bend back.. etc. But the ball a few feet away couldn't care less about this.

 

[Tokyo-dave]

I've never played with a Meucci, but in my own experience, I've come of the opinion that a softer or whippy shaft isn't always gonna result in a lesser deflection playing cue. I think it has allot more to do with a lighter end of shaft in the form of ferrule and tip. I think that weight and softness both contribute, but weight in my opinion is more significant.
I once bought a cue from a well known maker just as he was getting started, and although the cue was beautiful, the shaft was so soft and whippy, I could actually see the shaft quiver with every shot. And, this shaft had more deflection than any cue I've ever played. I'm not talking about a typically 'difficult' shaft, but one with so much deflection, the cue actually became kind of a gag item at the club where I played kinda like those cue balls with an off center balance. I'm serious, placing the OB 5 inches off the long rail 1 diamond away from the corner pocket, with the cue ball in line with the OB parallel to the long cushion and about half the distance from the side pocket and corner pocket. I slight cut, but nothing difficult, but this shot with that cue, and with average outside English, and I was actually cutting the OB on the opposite side!! It was crazy!! I figure that I was getting about 3/4 of a balls width of deflection!
On the other side of the argument, my current playing cue has a fairly stiff shaft, but a lighter ferrule and tapered down to about 12mm, and it plays with very minimal deflection inside or out.
I would have to guess that the lower deflection shafts attribute their performance more to less weight at the end of the shaft, than they do flexibility.
dave

 

[SPINDOKTOR]

To an extent yes, predictabilty, and consistancy is what you get with a quality low deflection shaft. Whitch will improve accuracy over time.


I like some Shaft give, meaning I can feel the shaft give somewhat at med hard strokes, To whippy, and you loose accuracy and spin, to stiff, exacty the same effect.

I recently purchased a Joss Direct from Dan Janes, I ask for a Morri Soft tip to be installed, when I recieve the cue the tip looked awsome, but playability sucked, it seemingly killed what Joss is, for me anyhow. Well I cut that sucker off and installed a Triangle tip, Now the cue play's perfect.

I have used Morri soft on several cues, this was the first time it actualy killed a cues performance. Bad tip Id think but the cue was ultra stiff, and I couldnt aquire much spin unless it was xtreme. ( I had to use the extremities High, Low, side to get even close to the same effect I useualy get holding closer to the center of the cue ball). The reason I mention this is because the Morri Tip was like a Damper, absorbing the impact and not transmitting the energy through the shaft, I felt no shaft flex at all, even hitting pretty firm. Oddly enough however I hit some balls on a bar box with a heavy cue ball and the cue actualy played a lil better.

When I installed the Triangle tip the cue has more feel, and english is as it should be easy to come by and I dont need to use extreme english to move the ball around. also FAR less deflection to deal with.

My preferance is a cue that has a nice sounding hit but has some flexability, I feel alot of cues out there are to stiff, Schon is a cue IMHO is about as close to perfect as you can get as far as hit and feel, the cue has a nice hit, but isnt overly stiff. Joss is close, (as long as you dont use a Morri tip IMO) Falcon cues are not to shaby either, I purchased a used one a played with it for about a year, I liked it, and would own another.




SPINDOKTOR

 

[John Barton]

I don't kow but my arm hurts.....

after doing several hundred shots with 4 butts and 9 shaft/ferrule configurations.

Only Meucci and Predator have ever tried to quantify performance and run tests to gather data. But they didn't publish their data and it wasn't correlated either.

I think we all have an idea of what "feels" good to us but why does it feel good? And which combination of factors is best for you.

Here is what I have - some cues that are gonna make quite a splash on the market in terms of what people think about performance. I have right now four butts and nine shafts with differing ferrule/taper combinations.

I picked five criteria to do the initial test on. The sound of the hit should be a low pitch, i.e. a thud vs a ting. The feel should be solid. The balance should rest easily in the hand, about 18" from the bumper. The deflection should be low. The reaction should be lively, i.e. I shouldn't have to work extra hard to move the cueball.

Now I know full well that all of these criteria are extremely subjective. And I know full well that my particular skill, as in ability to consistently produce nearly the same stroke and speed from shot to shot is nowhere near world class.

But I can establish a baseline for myself and judge the criteria off of that. IN full knowledge that the results can be different from person to person. But that is exactly why I am trying to setup some tests. I would like to have both a subjective measure of cue performance and an objective table of performance metrics to draw from.

Without revealing too much I can tell you that the little things DO make a difference. Now this is something we all know but we don't know how much of a difference and where it fits on the scale because there is no scale.

Predator has built a nice little business selling performance. Unfortunately they were also selling the dream of buying a better game and that's just not true for everyone. Not everyone benefits from playing with a Predator.

But WHAT IF you could tune your cue to your exact needs? What would this worth to you?

In the coming months you will see data published on cue performance metrics that will help everyone from players to manufacturers understand the dynamics of why a cueball reacts the way it does under which conditions.

And that will be the answer that you are looking for.

 

[CaptainHook]

Here is a chart I found while I was trying to research this very subject on my own.

http://www.meucci.com/sale/cues/meucci/index.html

Also a video test, the Broomstick is my favorite.

Of course it is a Meucci site so results will be in favor of the brand, but some might like to view the chart and the Video.

I do not or never have owned a Meucci. I always liked the Gambler model,
Road Agent and the Chess piece cue.

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

Also a video test, the Broomstick is my favorite.

Legend has it that Willie Mosconi practiced with a broomstick and potatoes when he was a kid. Try it yourself sometime. After 5 minutes of playing with a broomstick, you'll never complain about your playing cue again!

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Legend has it that Willie Mosconi practiced with a broomstick and potatoes when he was a kid. Try it yourself sometime. After 5 minutes of playing with a broomstick, you'll never complain about your playing cue again!

I did once played a cue without a ferrule and a tip on. it sucked big time.