Question about how to ruin a cue (sort of)

Dtm1182

Member
So this is kind of an odd question, but I want to take a junk cue with either spliced points or butterfly splice, cut a spliced section of the cue, soak it/steam it, and bend it to make into a cabinet pull handle for a big custom cue cabinet. So my questions are, will I be able to get a spliced section to bend without having the splices separate? Does anyone have any suggestions on how to achieve what I’m wanting to do? Does anyone have any cool cue builds that went sideways for one reason or another, that might work for my idea and look cool, that they would sell cheap? I was considering trying it on an old RichQ I have that I guess has lost most of its value, but has cool points. Any suggestions for if I attempt this with this cue? Cabinet and RichQ pictured. Thank you in advance for any and all suggestions or advice. And of course, delete if this question isn’t allowed here.
 

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Dtm1182

Member
I was thinking I would cut the joint off, and cut it off at the wrap, strip any finish, and soak it in boiling water, then try to bend it in my shop press.
 

Dtm1182

Member
I’d attempt to do the whole section from above the window to below the joint, but I don’t think the wrap section would come out good after being boiled or steamed, although maybe it would be easier to get a decent bend on a longer section?
 

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Dtm1182

Member
Yes, I absolutely could do that, I just thought it would be more of a challenge and look cooler if I could bend it. Sort of my homage to all the warped cues that have been lost to time I guess.
 

23DenaliBDE

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Yes, I absolutely could do that, I just thought it would be more of a challenge and look cooler if I could bend it. Sort of my homage to all the warped cues that have been lost to time I guess.
Not a cue maker but I do a bit of woodworking. This sounds like it should not be possible. Wood glued together is stronger than wood by itself. You also have differing grain orientations with the veneers. Not going to say it's impossible and I like the idea. I think a shaft could be done quite easily.
 

Dtm1182

Member
Not a cue maker but I do a bit of woodworking. This sounds like it should not be possible. Wood glued together is stronger than wood by itself. You also have differing grain orientations with the veneers. Not going to say it's impossible and I like the idea. I think a shaft could be done quite easily.

I may have to find a junk cue lot to experiment with, but what you’re saying makes sense, it shouldn’t stretch, so it would probably separate.i was thinking if I could get like an inch and a half curve over an 8-10 in section, then cut the faces flat, and glue in threaded inserts. I could compensate for some of the bend by sanding the underside of the contour. I’ll probably try it anyway. Someone sell me the most warped cue you have, so I have a head start. Or a crazy warped blank would probably look cool.
 

Dave38

theemperorhasnoclotheson
Silver Member
I may have to find a junk cue lot to experiment with, but what you’re saying makes sense, it shouldn’t stretch, so it would probably separate.i was thinking if I could get like an inch and a half curve over an 8-10 in section, then cut the faces flat, and glue in threaded inserts. I could compensate for some of the bend by sanding the underside of the contour. I’ll probably try it anyway. Someone sell me the most warped cue you have, so I have a head start. Or a crazy warped blank would probably look cool.
You can get the result but not how you think. You would need to build it from the ground up in layers. Make a shape form, then steam bend the first layer on it, then dry and steam bend the next layer while you glue it to the previous....repeat and rinse. Trying to take a solid pre-built would not work.
 

23DenaliBDE

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
I may have to find a junk cue lot to experiment with, but what you’re saying makes sense, it shouldn’t stretch, so it would probably separate.i was thinking if I could get like an inch and a half curve over an 8-10 in section, then cut the faces flat, and glue in threaded inserts. I could compensate for some of the bend by sanding the underside of the contour. I’ll probably try it anyway. Someone sell me the most warped cue you have, so I have a head start. Or a crazy warped blank would probably look cool.
Can't post links from my stupid tablet, but check out a video called A better way to do kerf bending. The channel is Ivan Makes on YT. You'd have to build a raised jig around the cue to hold the cue level with your surface and I'm still sure it'd work but it just might........ If you have a junk house cue to ruin you could find out
 

Ssonerai

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cut a spliced section of the cue, soak it/steam it, and bend it to make into a cabinet pull handle for a big custom cue cabinet. So my questions are, will I be able to get a spliced section to bend without having the splices separate?

No.

Most cuemakers don't use waterproof glue, even if it is titebond 3, it will not survive boiling and is not really waterproof. Glues like that soften at low temperatures as well. Epoxy or phenol resorcinal will probably partially hold at the glue line, but i don't think the wood would survive. Non-high-temp epoxy like WEST starts to soften around 150F.

There have been examples of bending wood and tying knots in some thickish rounds with ammonia. The full strength stuff that can kill you, not window-wash solution. Then the question is back to what it does to glue.

Lets review bending wood:
#1.) boiling water is just about hot enough to be effective, but the water is a mess and un-neccessary. The principle is to plasticize the lignin in the wood, not to swell it with excess moisture. However, some moisture does lower the plasticizing temperature. Steam in a steambox is traditional and works - the box with insulation can allow the steam to get hotter than 212F through the slight pressure increase. An autoclave is better. Hot presses or ovens work, if you are patient. 270F is about where lignin starts to flex a little with dry heat. Steam, if left long enough to saturate, can soften wood maybe starting around 150F - ish. Many hardwoods take higher temps.

#2.) to effectively bend wood, the side that "gives" should be in compression. (Just like bending most things, including steel) Stretching the outside happens a little of course but if that is primary it will split either in the bending, or later. So shops that practice steam bending as a trade, normal ops use steel straps with end restraint, to bend wood. It forces the wood to bend on the inside and the steel strap keeps the outside mostly neutral.. I think you can see that in any event, you are not going to "stretch" short glued in blocks and such.

Dave 38 nails it for a successful process. Or machine the whole thing and work out how to make the inlays so they look bent.

smt
 

muskyed

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Being a wood worker myself, supprised I also didn't think of the option machining it although I would probably just take one cut at each end. Still like the straight full piece idea. I don't see any glued up piece being able to withstand being bent. Bent while gluing up yes, but not the other way.
Really like the idea as an old stick as a handle though.
 

DaveK

Still crazy after all these years
Silver Member
CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION Anhydrous Ammonia can KILL YOU !!!

Ammonia can be used to plasticize woods for extreme bending.


Maybe there is a commercial outfit that would do the job safely for you.

Dave
 

Dtm1182

Member
No.

Most cuemakers don't use waterproof glue, even if it is titebond 3, it will not survive boiling and is not really waterproof. Glues like that soften at low temperatures as well. Epoxy or phenol resorcinal will probably partially hold at the glue line, but i don't think the wood would survive. Non-high-temp epoxy like WEST starts to soften around 150F.

There have been examples of bending wood and tying knots in some thickish rounds with ammonia. The full strength stuff that can kill you, not window-wash solution. Then the question is back to what it does to glue.

Lets review bending wood:
#1.) boiling water is just about hot enough to be effective, but the water is a mess and un-neccessary. The principle is to plasticize the lignin in the wood, not to swell it with excess moisture. However, some moisture does lower the plasticizing temperature. Steam in a steambox is traditional and works - the box with insulation can allow the steam to get hotter than 212F through the slight pressure increase. An autoclave is better. Hot presses or ovens work, if you are patient. 270F is about where lignin starts to flex a little with dry heat. Steam, if left long enough to saturate, can soften wood maybe starting around 150F - ish. Many hardwoods take higher temps.

#2.) to effectively bend wood, the side that "gives" should be in compression. (Just like bending most things, including steel) Stretching the outside happens a little of course but if that is primary it will split either in the bending, or later. So shops that practice steam bending as a trade, normal ops use steel straps with end restraint, to bend wood. It forces the wood to bend on the inside and the steel strap keeps the outside mostly neutral.. I think you can see that in any event, you are not going to "stretch" short glued in blocks and such.

Dave 38 nails it for a successful process. Or machine the whole thing and work out how to make the inlays so they look bent.

smt
Thank you! This is great information.
 

Dtm1182

Member
CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION Anhydrous Ammonia can KILL YOU !!!

Ammonia can be used to plasticize woods for extreme bending.


Maybe there is a commercial outfit that would do the job safely for you.

Dave

Cool video. Very informative. I won’t be attempting that. lol
 
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