Hi. I'm pretty new to the world of cues, and have a very simple question: Why is it that a lot of the high end production cues (Schon, Mezz, Joss, Pechauer, new Ob-1 cues) are offered with (for the most part) only ss joints? What percentage of the pool playing world plays with a stainless steel joint? Looking at photos of custom cue builders, they seem to feature a variety of joint options. Basic production cues like Viking and McDermott also seem to offer a variety of joint options. Wouldn't Schon, Mezz et al appeal to more cue buyers if they offered more joint options? I may be oversimplifying, and maybe they do make SOME cues without the ss joint, but looking at their websites it seems like 99% of their cues do have the ss joint.
question about schon, joss, mezz, etc
- Thread starter 219Dave
- Start date
one thing i noticed is the ss is only an outside shell. the joint is actually wood with a ss finish around the wood. i would assume its just for looks. i play with a Mezz wavy joint and its a full wood joint with a very thin layer of stainless steel on the outside of the wood.
Joint types
Yeh
I like the fact schon has a consistent stiff hit you can rely on
schon with a phenolic, and a soft hit would seem strange
likewise, wouldn't mind if meucci still made the cues it used 30 years ago,a soft phenolic hit with trucloads of action
In fact I think the meucci hof-3 is weird with it's SS joint
seems these days, unlike 20-30 years ago, stiff is in, and soft is out
bottomline, wish you could trust a top brand production cue to remain consistent and thus deliver a standard synonomous with it's brand;
Much like schon, or joss and their characteristic stiffer hits
Yeh
I like the fact schon has a consistent stiff hit you can rely on
schon with a phenolic, and a soft hit would seem strange
likewise, wouldn't mind if meucci still made the cues it used 30 years ago,a soft phenolic hit with trucloads of action
In fact I think the meucci hof-3 is weird with it's SS joint
seems these days, unlike 20-30 years ago, stiff is in, and soft is out
bottomline, wish you could trust a top brand production cue to remain consistent and thus deliver a standard synonomous with it's brand;
Much like schon, or joss and their characteristic stiffer hits
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Although they also make custom cues, Jacoby makes production cues with a variety of different joints (ss 5/16x14, 3/8x10, radial pin, and maybe more). I have one with the SS 5/16x14 (pics of it in my sig. link), but it's a bit different than the THICK stainless joints of Schon and Joss. Anyway, just wanted to point them out as an option if you want multiple joint choices.
As for their quality, construction, finish, play-ability - ALL TOP NOTCH!! Not to mention the folks at Jacoby are GREAT to deal with, and stand behind their cues 110%
http://www.jacobycustomcues.com/
As for their quality, construction, finish, play-ability - ALL TOP NOTCH!! Not to mention the folks at Jacoby are GREAT to deal with, and stand behind their cues 110%
http://www.jacobycustomcues.com/
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A little help
Most production cues (JOSS Schon etc) rely on their hit to sell there cues.
Hit- how a cue feels when it strikes a cue ball
The hit can be solid, soft, etc
Things like ferrules short and long ivory or ivrine can make a difference also. The hardness of the tip is also critical. Certain shots in pool require different things from your cue. The HIT is what is going to allow you to become comfortable with your cue and start to understand its own hit.
For instance... I play with a joss/OB-2, while the OB-2 was back with Royce at OB cues I found a Russ espiritue I just couldnt pass up. I was very excited and took it to the local cue guy and had him install all my specs. Except this time in a love for ivory I had them install an ivory ferrule. This made the cue hit much softer as ivory is porus.
These cues have the same joint S.S. 5/16x14. Later that same night I fund my self down 0-3 in a race to 9 with a softer hitting cue with less action then I was used to. I ended up 7-8 sitting on a tough 10 ball and blowing it. Now did the hit make me miss? No? Well probably not but what did make me miss that shot and others was the lack of control I felt and the lack of trust in the cue and its hit. I just wasnt comfertable
Hit matters but your confidence in the HIT is what matters most.
JOINTS
wood-wood lots of feel softer hit. (Mcdermott for example)
Ivory good sold hit but again softer then S.S. (Custom cues)
S.S. hard hit and in my opinion the only way to go.
The joint pin also makes a difference as well as the balance point and the shaft diameter. But I feel like I have rambled enough. I will let some one else take it from here.:smile:
Action Alex
Most production cues (JOSS Schon etc) rely on their hit to sell there cues.
Hit- how a cue feels when it strikes a cue ball
The hit can be solid, soft, etc
Things like ferrules short and long ivory or ivrine can make a difference also. The hardness of the tip is also critical. Certain shots in pool require different things from your cue. The HIT is what is going to allow you to become comfortable with your cue and start to understand its own hit.
For instance... I play with a joss/OB-2, while the OB-2 was back with Royce at OB cues I found a Russ espiritue I just couldnt pass up. I was very excited and took it to the local cue guy and had him install all my specs. Except this time in a love for ivory I had them install an ivory ferrule. This made the cue hit much softer as ivory is porus.
These cues have the same joint S.S. 5/16x14. Later that same night I fund my self down 0-3 in a race to 9 with a softer hitting cue with less action then I was used to. I ended up 7-8 sitting on a tough 10 ball and blowing it. Now did the hit make me miss? No? Well probably not but what did make me miss that shot and others was the lack of control I felt and the lack of trust in the cue and its hit. I just wasnt comfertable
Hit matters but your confidence in the HIT is what matters most.
JOINTS
wood-wood lots of feel softer hit. (Mcdermott for example)
Ivory good sold hit but again softer then S.S. (Custom cues)
S.S. hard hit and in my opinion the only way to go.
The joint pin also makes a difference as well as the balance point and the shaft diameter. But I feel like I have rambled enough. I will let some one else take it from here.:smile:
Action Alex
The answer to why so many "production" cue manufacturers use Stainless Steel joints is simple, they want a uniform hit (a firmer/harder hit) from ALL their cues and S.S. joint is both simpler to do and the most consistent from one cue to the next.
The joint size/type uniformity is also simple, partly the same reason as above AND each joint size/type changes the "hit" and they want to preserve their "reputation", ie., Schon has a "hard" hit.
(It also costs MUCH more to make an inventory of each cue model in ALL different joint sizes!)
The joint size/type uniformity is also simple, partly the same reason as above AND each joint size/type changes the "hit" and they want to preserve their "reputation", ie., Schon has a "hard" hit.
(It also costs MUCH more to make an inventory of each cue model in ALL different joint sizes!)
RD3P
Banned
thats right Schon strives to make every cue that comes out of the shop have that "schon" hit....thats why they dont do custom shaft tapers and joints.....and every shaft has the same type on Tip on it from them....there shafts are odball in that they dont fit on other 5/16 #14cuebutts...they dont want you mixing. they want that hit and Balance to be their trademark they want it all to themselves
....
these things are also why some say that schon isnt custom because certain things Evan will not do when building his cues because he wants every cue to have the 'Schon' hit.....PERSONALLY i think its a very smart thing to do.
Also i think that alot of custom cuemakers might not use Steel Joints because Stainless steel is probably pricey unless your buying a bunch like schon does.... and Stainless steel is alot harder on tooling than wood or phenolic. personally i love stainless joints.....i like the forward weight,
Howcome just about every body quit using brass for the joint?
i disagree with nance wayne on the simplicity of a stainless joint tho...
to me it doesnt get much simpler thatn a 3/8 #10 wood to wood joint.
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