Question about shafts, tips, and spin

Cue Freak

Cue Freak

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was talking to a local bar owner the other day and was wanting to change the tip on my 314-2 from the Everest to a Moori Med. I didn't like that I couldn't put as much spin on the CB with the Everest. He told me that the 314 shafts were a stiff shaft and that a softer tip would allow it to grab the CB more. So basically he is saying that the stiffer the shaft, the softer tip you should use, and vice versa.
I don't know why, but this struck me kinda weird, so I was just wondering what your opinions were.

Thanks,

Matt
 
He is correct on one point. A softer tip will permit a greater grab on the Q ball a give more english (spin).

When I first started shooting pool, I wanted a soft tip so I could put on as much english as possible, if needed. However, an old timer once told me "U will get into trouble using a soft tip". His point being that by using a softer tip, a hit just slightly off center of the Q ball will transfer more unwanted spin. After trial and error, I discovered he was right. Seems we all have to learn the hard way. The segmented shaft makers all use a hard tip (to the best of my knowledge). I use a Tiger X shaft that only comes with a hard Sniper layered tip and I love it. I will never go back to soft tips.

Charlie
 
I mostly shoot with Med-hard range tips, usually more on the hard side. Stroke and feel are key for me with those, but when everything is working for me, It's a killer combo. I know what to do on the table when thinking clearly, and still shoot alright some nights, but don't get to play enough, as I use to, and it takes a fair amount of warmup for me when I do play. I tried to go with a softer tip to make up for My cold strokes, and it helped me from jarring the pockets as much, so I could stroke them in the pockets and not have to be hitting dead center every time, but a few things I noticed were loss of feel/feedback that I was use to, some linitations as well as inconsistencies every once in a while when I was finally warmed up.
For some reason I couldn't stay use to the speeds either.With the harder tips, My lags were good, the softer not so good, even when I thought I was warmed up. Keep in Mind not a super soft tip, just alot softer then what I normally use.


I always hear that four letter word people use to explain the spin that a softer tip puts on the ball;) , but for some reason I have an easier time staying close to middle, and getting the spin I need with a harder tip. Perhaps It's just the type of strokes in My arsenal, I'm not sure. I do have some strokes that put more on english with the soft tip, but not in a good way for Me. I've given soft tips several tries in the past too, and never found one that did'nt make My game feel restricted in some way. I found out they were'nt for me, but people that do like them, don't like to shoot with anything else.

When It comes to real soft tips, My belief is either they are for You, or they are not. I have had people over the years that only use soft tips (mostly old timers, all though no all), but most people like them in the firm type soft like a moori "S", just a hair softer, or the medium to hard range.

IMO The only way to know if it for You or not, Is put the softer tip on there, give yourself enough time to ajust to the change, and see where Your game is then. I'm guessing that If you like the moori Med then a radical change to soft may not be for You though, and best not to go extremely soft with the tip at first. :)

Greg
 
Another word of differentiation:

Tips of similar hardness, but from different manufacturers, hold chalk with very dissimilar effectiveness and also grip upon cueball contact differently.

To me, it seems that, for lack of a better description, the porosity of the Moori tip is like a match made in Heaven for the blue-colored Master Chalk (different chalk manufacturers is a different item). I have found that only a SINGLE, thin layer of chalk needs to be applied to the Moori tip, while every other tip I have played with required CONSTANT and AGGRESSIVE attention with the chalk.

As far as tip hardness is concerned, the Mueller Hardness Index rates the Everest at 75.1 and the Moori III Med. at 74.2. On Mueller's hardness scale, this is nearly identical, both are near the TOP side of the scale (66-76) for medium hardness.

These tips rate at very nearly the same hardness as Tsunami Med (75.8), Stratos Med (75.5), Talisman Water Buffalo Med (74.7), and the Tiger Laminated Med (74.5). Tiger is also the maker of the Everest tip. I can't find any such ratings for the Kamui tip, yet.

So, anyway, while it may appear that the Everest and Moori III Med are appreciably the same hardness, there IS a great deal of difference in their play. I have had fewer miscue problems with the Moori Med than any other tip I have ever used -- and, I hae tried MANY of them out on different cues I own. The Moori just seems to grip the ball better than any tip I have used.

I have also heard many stories of those who have used either the Everest (which, by the way, is a very good tip!) or another favorite, the Hercules, switching to the Talisman, Moori or Sniper. For a little while, the Talisman seemed to break down in about the 3rd layer from the ferrule -- I believe this has long since been corrected (Tony at Talisman stands firmly behind ALL of his products). The Talisman is a GREAT tip -- however, those who have made the switch to either Moori or Sniper NOW REFUSE TO CHANGE!

If you DO change to the Moori Med, you will be surprised at the difference. Is the Moori a better tip than the Everest? I believe they are manufactured equally to the exact same level of excellence. But you WILL notice the difference with the chalk AND the cueball grip. The adjustment will not be difficult.

But, in the end, whether or not you like this tip better will be a matter of personal judgement/preference, just like someone else has already mentioned. Either spend the $30 to have someone put this tip on your cue to try out, or find someone else who has a Moori Med on their cue and will let you play with it for a couple of hours. Since you say you don't like the way the Everest makes you "work" to get side-spin, you DO need a change -- and you DID get a good recommendation from the guy watching you play.
 
Thanks for the responses everyone. Keep 'em coming!

I guess if the hardness ratings of the Everest and Moori aren't so different it wouldn't be much of a change. I just don't understand what he was getting at, as far as the whole stiff shaft/soft tip-whippy shaft/med tip thing...:confused:

Matt
 
Cue Freak said:
Thanks for the responses everyone. Keep 'em coming!

I guess if the hardness ratings of the Everest and Moori aren't so different it wouldn't be much of a change. I just don't understand what he was getting at, as far as the whole stiff shaft/soft tip-whippy shaft/med tip thing...:confused:

Matt
Click to expand...


A couple of years ago, I was using a med. moori on a 314 shaft. Until last Thurs., I had a segmented DP shaft using a Sniper Hard. There isn't as much difference as you think to drawing the ball with a hard tip. A good friend of mine and heck of a player was using my Lightning Bolt break-cue with the G-10 Glass Epoxy tip and drawing 3/4 table length.

Spend more time hitting the cue ball with less power but more draw. By that, I mean learn to hit the slower deliberate draw first. You can figure out where the maximum draw point is(the point where you miscue is below the lowest draw point.). It should be around 6 o'clock 3rd circle. Once you can draw the ball back a few feet without having to power it, you can work on some distance and control.

Check out some of Joe Villalpondo's DVD clips on his web site. www.pooliq.net

You can also search on here for post dealing with his DVD's. The first DVD doesn't pertain to this topic as much(kicks), but sets the ground work for his system. The second DVD is on Cue-ball Control and would help you figure out that the stroke dictates where the ball goes, not the density of the tip. Sure you can spin it more with the soft, but more isn't necessarily better.

The 6 o'clock 3rd circle is part of the language in Joe's system. Pick up the DVD's and you'll understand. Both DVD's are well worth the money. Ask most anyone on here who's picked them up.

Dave
 
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