Question for 9-ball players
- Thread starter poolchic
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poolchic said:Have you ever had a problem with contemplating the runout for 8-ball? I mean it just seems that when i play 8-ball i pretty much just shoot balls in til i get to my last 3 then i kinda got an idea. Anyone got any philosiphy of there own to share? Thanks
A lot depends on the layout of the table. I've learned to be flexible with my 8-ball run-outs. Assuming you're working with an open table, you have to look for the pitfalls immediately. You have to view balls of your group as options and obstacles for your opponent so every ball you pocket, you eliminate an option for yourself and an obstacle for your opponent. Assuming you are attempting a run-out, you must realize that failure to do so will likely result in a loss. You simply cannot afford to miss the 8-ball or the ball before it.
Right after the break, I'm looking at all the balls in my group and determining:
1. Which balls can be made at any time from anywhere
2. Which balls will require specific position to pocket and which balls lead me there
3. How many balls from group 2 can I eliminate while keeping balls from group 1.
4. What is the ideal end-pattern and which balls can serve as back-up in-case I need to change my pattern.
Ideally, you want to be left straight and short on the 8-ball but you must be ready to sacrafice such a concept if you fall out-of-line. Don't be afraid to leave yourself tough on the 8-ball if it will guarantee an unobstructed shot at it. Unlike 9-ball, the game gets tougher as you progress.
poolchic said:Have you ever had a problem with contemplating the runout for 8-ball? I mean it just seems that when i play 8-ball i pretty much just shoot balls in til i get to my last 3 then i kinda got an idea. Anyone got any philosiphy of there own to share? Thanks
Plan backwards. Start with the eight. Where will it go? When you decide which pocket is best, find which ball will offer the best opportunity to get position on the eight. Then which ball will give the best position on that ball, etc, until you have an (up to) eight ball runout planned. If you miss your position on any shot, you'll have to reevaluate.
Eight ball is a tougher game than nine ball, requiring more strategical play. To make matters worse, it gets harder the farther into you runout you get. Also, the farther you get into your runout, the fewer safety options you will likely have.
I hope this helps.
Good Rolls,
Rasta
nyjoe14.1 said:
On the contrary, I think 14.1 is an entirely different game than 8-ball. Although, I do believe the most proficient straight pool players will have the appreciation and decipline to be successful 8-ball players, I do not believe straight pool will necessarily help your 8-ball game. The two games yield entirely different complexities. Straight pool often dictates that you clear a problem area whereas 8-ball often dictates that you work around it.
I think, if you want to work on your patterns in 8-ball, play 8-ball on a barbox against a competent player.
Rasta said:
I like this strategy when there are only a few balls remaining and you have ball-in-hand. In every other scenario, it's important to not be so rigid. You can have a great break, pocket 3-balls and have the rock in decent shape and still only have a couple shots available. You have to be flexible, prioritize the lay-out and try to determine which balls can help you if something bad happens.
Jude Rosenstock said:
The point I was trying to make is that straight pool will teach you to play patters. Nine ball is like playing connect the dots, you know what ball you have to make and when. Unlike 9 ball, straight pool does not dictate the run to you. This is very much the same in 8 ball, you have to tell your self what the next shot is instead of having the game do it for you.
Being able to see these patterns can not help but improve you 8 ball game. Not to mention that learning to play the stack and break up clusters would help tremendously in 8 ball. If your playing someone w/ a weak break this is invaluable. Not to mention even w/ a monster break if your playing on a small table (maybe even a big on) these clusters may be unavoidable, and you must be able to deal w/ them to run out.
Go for your break out shots early and leave your easy balls (near pockets that you can make anytime) until you get in trouble. If the run out looks like you are only going to clear 5 or 6 and give up the table you better leave at least one of your balls between your opponents ball or balls and a pocket. I don't like to take my balls off the table until i'm pretty sure I can get out and if I try and my break outs aren't successful then I look for the best safety I can see to play and hope that my opponent takes a few balls off if he has a shot and let's me back at the table. Don't lose your patience and play safe until things look like they are in your favor to get out.poolchic said:Have you ever had a problem with contemplating the runout for 8-ball? I mean it just seems that when i play 8-ball i pretty much just shoot balls in til i get to my last 3 then i kinda got an idea. Anyone got any philosiphy of there own to share? Thanks
Jude Rosenstock said:
I agree. I should have added that it is important to be aware when the planned runout is no longer the best choice. Flexibility is very important. Sticking to the plan at the expense of giving up a better option is not good strategy.
Good Rolls,
Rasta
i dont play much 8 ball but when i do i basically work backwards like someone else was saying. I figure out my key ball, the one b4 the 8, and just go from there. I go for problem balls and clusters early so if things go wrong i havent cleared the table for my opponent, and just play it how it makes sense to me.
A good practice is to make a normal breakshot and then decide which group you want to play.
Depending on your skills you can take away all balls of the other group and let's say allow 1 or 2 misses.
If you can run out that pattern consecutively then leave one ball of the other group on the table and allow no misses, then two, three... until you have a rack of 8-ball to run out
There are also 3 different ways of setting up the rack.
1. A, B and C balls already explained here
2. planning back from the 8
or 3. dividing the table into 2 parts (upper/lower) and cleaning it one after the other
Personally I try to do #2 which I think works best.
If a ball is hanging in the pocket, leave it. It might save you when you mess up position as you can do anything with a ball that close to the pocket
Depending on your skills you can take away all balls of the other group and let's say allow 1 or 2 misses.
If you can run out that pattern consecutively then leave one ball of the other group on the table and allow no misses, then two, three... until you have a rack of 8-ball to run out
There are also 3 different ways of setting up the rack.
1. A, B and C balls already explained here
2. planning back from the 8
or 3. dividing the table into 2 parts (upper/lower) and cleaning it one after the other
Personally I try to do #2 which I think works best.
If a ball is hanging in the pocket, leave it. It might save you when you mess up position as you can do anything with a ball that close to the pocket
when i 'practice'@home i'll usually just throw all 15 balls up without trying to break.now i can really see how the table sets up.what i'll do...is visualize my runout...noting where and which balls will be a problem always mindful that they must be broken up or move from a bad spot.once you can manage to get use to running a rack this way and sink the 8 respot it and continue with all the remaining balls.ideally you'll be running both high and lows after some practice.running ''' a '''rack is not bad for starters lol
this saves lots of time racking and reracking...especially if your paying time..if you must 'practice your break just try to keep the cueball in the center of the table and your decision should come naturally after a time....good luck
diller
this saves lots of time racking and reracking...especially if your paying time..if you must 'practice your break just try to keep the cueball in the center of the table and your decision should come naturally after a time....good luck
diller
8BallJunkie
Registered
I am not nearly as good as some of the folks on but my .02 anyway.
Like has been stated before look for any places you will encounter problem i.e. having to break out balls or a ball that will only go in one pocket and determine how to address that issue quickly
Also determine what pocket the 8 ball goes in and map the table backwards from the ball the gives you the best opportunity to set up the 8 ball. Of course this only works if you move around the table cleanly (is that even a word??) and don't move things around along the way. Or that has been my determination.....sometimes you just have to stop and rethink the path you are heading down.
And just a tidbit for the OP.......Jude has given some great 8 ball advice in the past that has helped my game a lot
Like has been stated before look for any places you will encounter problem i.e. having to break out balls or a ball that will only go in one pocket and determine how to address that issue quickly
Also determine what pocket the 8 ball goes in and map the table backwards from the ball the gives you the best opportunity to set up the 8 ball. Of course this only works if you move around the table cleanly (is that even a word??) and don't move things around along the way. Or that has been my determination.....sometimes you just have to stop and rethink the path you are heading down.
And just a tidbit for the OP.......Jude has given some great 8 ball advice in the past that has helped my game a lot
The point of 8 ball is too make the 8 ball. So one of the first things you have to look for is the key ball. That is a ball where you can either stop or just slightly draw or follow to get shape on the 8 ball. This will be the last ball which you should be shooting..So yiour pattern should get you to this ball last.
8BallJunkie said:
Thx 8balljunkie,
I guess, what I've been trying to convey is that there is a fundamental difference between straight pool and 8-ball in this sense: In straight pool, oftentimes patterns are used so that you run through the rack and not stumble through it. You're looking for a series of stop-shots. In 8-ball, connect-the-dot patterns are frequently not available (when they are, bless the Gods) and it's important to prioritize things. Your "pattern" may have some odd twists and turns and the better 8-ball players are always utilizing a back-up plan whenever they need to send the cue-ball a long way. Sometimes you simply have to fall outside that connect-the-dot layout in-order to address a problem, maintain a safety-net or simply to create a layout advantage.
You can attempt a run-out, miss and still win. You just have to miss the right shot. It's an option a straight pool player doesn't even begin to ponder.
erikido said:
This is a good point but also understand that there are position-routes that you can utilize that might be easier to position for than stop-shots.
In the diagram below, you have two stripes remaining and the 8-ball. Most players would like to leave the 11-ball as their key-ball for the 8 but gaining a straight angle on the 11-ball isn't exactly the easiest thing. One option (espeically on a barbox) is to play the 11-ball first and take the multi-rail shot on the 13 to set-up for the 8-ball. Position is nearly automatic. It's almost impossible to mess-up this way.
Jude Rosenstock said:
While I do agree (especially as primarily a 9 ball player) that this shot is very easy.....With a lot of balls on the table(the other player may well have all his balls on the table) this shot becomes a little more complicated. But, your point is well taken.
Now that I am on a comp that is cooperating more I will complete my thought as well...
Some other general guidelines can be to get rid of portions of the table. So you don't have to move all the way across the table too many times. Try to get rid of the balls which are farthest away from the 8 ball first and let those get you to the ones which are closer to the 8 (if possible of course). Play a safety if you can't run out. There are always exceptions to these rules, but this will give you a good start.
Oh yeah and the last one is start playing straight pool if you don't already play. That will help out your 8 ball greatly. Just read some of the previous posts. To whomever said straight pool won't help your 8.....Well just consider how many times you are shooting a shot, trying to break out a cluster while making sure you have an insurance ball in straight pool. This is something which comes in VERY handy in an 8 ball game.
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erikido said:
Yes and one can take that logic a step further and say that pocketing in straight pool can help your pocketing in 9-ball. Yes, playing pool is good for your pool game.
http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AaiN3BYMy1...cbCg3kGwp2kJts3kLuY3kLmY3kLmW3kLmX3kMDW3kMDW@
I made this shot in a tournmanent yesterday. This makes a total of 3 kicked 8-balls to win the set.
I made this shot in a tournmanent yesterday. This makes a total of 3 kicked 8-balls to win the set.