Question from a "new" player

[alstl]

I'm not exactly new, I played a lot when I was a kid in a small town in Iowa where the only thing to do was shoot pool in a tavern. All they had was snooker tables.

I recently retired and started playing again. I access to a free table at the community center where I live, dead rails and far from perfect table, but free. I decided to buy a cue, picked up a Crest cue for a few bucks. 19oz with a hard tip, main thing I liked about it was it was straight. After doing some research I've reached the conclusion that this is one of the cheapest cues made, I can't even find a site for the company on the internet. To give you an idea what kind of player I am, if I can get through a rack of 15 with five or fewer misses I've had a decent game. Sometimes it takes me more than five misses to sink all 15 balls.

So, I have a few basic questions. First, how much will a better (more expensive) cue help my game. All I ever played with before was house cues. My game did improve with the Crest, in part due to the fact that it's not warped. I'm tempted to get a better cue but don't want to spend 2 or 3 hundred bucks if it won't make any difference.

Second, is there a standard place to hold the cue? Do most people hold it on the wrap or on the end of the butt, or is simply personal preference?

Third, is there a best bridge to use? As a kid I got used to using an open bridge with little, ring and middle fingers extended and index finger curled in against the thumb. On tv I saw someone using a different open bridge, ring and middle fingers curled under with little and index extended and thumb against the index. I tried that and it seems a little better. Then there is the bridge with the index finger over top of the cue which I never used much. Is one of these better than others or is it just what works for you?

fourth, this is a 19 oz. What is the difference between that and a 20 or 21 oz? does the lighter weight give better control?

Finally, I've never played with a hard tip until this cue. Would a medium or soft time let me put more english on the ball? What are the tradeoffs between a hard tip and medium or soft?

I know these are pretty basic questions but I appreciate any replies.

Thanks

 

[Purdman]

I'm not exactly new, I played a lot when I was a kid in a small town in Iowa where the only thing to do was shoot pool in a tavern. All they had was snooker tables.

I recently retired and started playing again. I access to a free table at the community center where I live, dead rails and far from perfect table, but free. I decided to buy a cue, picked up a Crest cue for a few bucks. 19oz with a hard tip, main thing I liked about it was it was straight. After doing some research I've reached the conclusion that this is one of the cheapest cues made, I can't even find a site for the company on the internet. To give you an idea what kind of player I am, if I can get through a rack of 15 with five or fewer misses I've had a decent game. Sometimes it takes me more than five misses to sink all 15 balls.

So, I have a few basic questions. First, how much will a better (more expensive) cue help my game. All I ever played with before was house cues. My game did improve with the Crest, in part due to the fact that it's not warped. I'm tempted to get a better cue but don't want to spend 2 or 3 hundred bucks if it won't make any difference.

Second, is there a standard place to hold the cue? Do most people hold it on the wrap or on the end of the butt, or is simply personal preference?

Third, is there a best bridge to use? As a kid I got used to using an open bridge with little, ring and middle fingers extended and index finger curled in against the thumb. On tv I saw someone using a different open bridge, ring and middle fingers curled under with little and index extended and thumb against the index. I tried that and it seems a little better. Then there is the bridge with the index finger over top of the cue which I never used much. Is one of these better than others or is it just what works for you?

fourth, this is a 19 oz. What is the difference between that and a 20 or 21 oz? does the lighter weight give better control?

Finally, I've never played with a hard tip until this cue. Would a medium or soft time let me put more english on the ball? What are the tradeoffs between a hard tip and medium or soft?

I know these are pretty basic questions but I appreciate any replies.

Thanks

Forget about a new cue for now. Buy a book that teaches the proper mechanics or pay a Certified instructor for a few lessons. Develope your STROKE first. You put in the time and it will pay off in the long run.
Purdman

 

[Wally in Cincy]

how much will a better (more expensive) cue help my game. All I ever played with before was house cues. My game did improve with the Crest, in part due to the fact that it's not warped. I'm tempted to get a better cue but don't want to spend 2 or 3 hundred bucks if it won't make any difference.

You can get a Dufferin or Mali sneaky pete (2-piece cue that looks like a house cue) for less than $100 that will play better than the cue you have now. Or you could spend $200 for a McDermott if you want something a little fancier

Second, is there a standard place to hold the cue? Do most people hold it on the wrap or on the end of the butt, or is simply personal preference?

It really depends on your height. The taller you are the farther back your hand will be. What you want is for your forearm to be perpendicular to the table when the tip strikes the cue ball.

You need to get a book called "Play Your Best Pool" by Phil Cappelle

As a kid I got used to using an open bridge with little, ring and middle fingers extended and index finger curled in against the thumb. On tv I saw someone using a different open bridge, ring and middle fingers curled under with little and index extended and thumb against the index. I tried that and it seems a little better.

The bridge you saw on tv is the proper one for an open bridge. You may use the closed bridge more often as you get more experience.

fourth, this is a 19 oz. What is the difference between that and a 20 or 21 oz? does the lighter weight give better control?

It's just a matter of personal preference. Most players nowadays use 19 or 19.5 oz. cues

Finally, I've never played with a hard tip until this cue. Would a medium or soft time let me put more english on the ball? What are the tradeoffs between a hard tip and medium or soft?

I think a newbie should use a softer tip but that's JMO

If you get a new cue it will have a better tip than the one you have now.

 

[Wally in Cincy]

Forget about a new cue for now. Buy a book that teaches the proper mechanics or pay a Certified instructor for a few lessons. Develope your STROKE first. You put in the time and it will pay off in the long run.
Purdman

I thought my advice was stellar but I also agree with Purdman

 

[Koop]

First, how much will a better (more expensive) cue help my game. All I ever played with before was house cues. My game did improve with the Crest, in part due to the fact that it's not warped. I'm tempted to get a better cue but don't want to spend 2 or 3 hundred bucks if it won't make any difference.

Second, is there a standard place to hold the cue? Do most people hold it on the wrap or on the end of the butt, or is simply personal preference?

Third, is there a best bridge to use? As a kid I got used to using an open bridge with little, ring and middle fingers extended and index finger curled in against the thumb. On tv I saw someone using a different open bridge, ring and middle fingers curled under with little and index extended and thumb against the index. I tried that and it seems a little better. Then there is the bridge with the index finger over top of the cue which I never used much. Is one of these better than others or is it just what works for you?

fourth, this is a 19 oz. What is the difference between that and a 20 or 21 oz? does the lighter weight give better control?

Finally, I've never played with a hard tip until this cue. Would a medium or soft time let me put more english on the ball? What are the tradeoffs between a hard tip and medium or soft?

Thanks

Far more knowledge on here than myself but I'll give it a crack.
1. Probably not going to make much difference as long it's straight with a good tip. I feel it just comes down to getting used to your cue so that you are comfortable.
2. Speaking for myself, I find that my back hand is usually half on the wrap and half on the buttsleeve. Just where it is most comfortable for me. On shots where I need a lot of control I tend to bring my back hand forward, and vice versa when I need to really let it go.
3. Again, speaking for myself, I use an open bridge when accuracy is imperative like a long straight in shot. The rest of the time I honestly don't think about it. I guess I've been playing just long enough that it is something I just do without realizing.
4. I find a heavier cue is best when you don't have a great stroke. A lot of pros like a lighter cue because they have a great stroke and it gives them a better feel. My cues are all around 19.7 oz
5. Biggest trade-off, I think, is the miscue factor. A harder tip will miscue more often but seems to deliver better spin. I use Triangles on all my cues FWIW but everyone has their favorites for different reasons.

I hope this helpful and I'm sure you will get even better responses than mine.

Regards,
Koop

 

[alstl]

Forget about a new cue for now. Buy a book that teaches the proper mechanics or pay a Certified instructor for a few lessons. Develope your STROKE first. You put in the time and it will pay off in the long run.
Purdman

Are there any books you could recommend? A quick check of the library site shows a few: Advanced Pool, techniques and strategies for mastering the game. by Fels

The black widow's guide to killer pool. By Jeanette Lee

A couple books by Byrne, Standard book of pool and billiards, and advanced techniques. Also a couple videos from Byrne.

Complete beginners guide to pool... by Sullivan

Cue tips. by Raftis

 

[Jal]

Are there any books you could recommend? A quick check of the library site shows a few: Advanced Pool, techniques and strategies for mastering the game. by Fels

The black widow's guide to killer pool. By Jeanette Lee

A couple books by Byrne, Standard book of pool and billiards, and advanced techniques. Also a couple videos from Byrne.

Complete beginners guide to pool... by Sullivan

Cue tips. by Raftis

Robert Byrne's books and videos are highly recommended. Not that the others aren't good - I haven't read them - but you can't go wrong with his or Capelle's books and videos.

One comment about your bridge. You don't have to curl any fingers up. Extending all of them might provide for a slightly more stable bridge, but if you feel more comfortable curling a couple of them up, that should be okay too. Byrne recommends using a closed bridge (index finger looped over the shaft), especially for draw shots. This is not necessary, although a closed bridge may provide a little more directional stabilization. Snooker players use an open bridge because of the more exacting accuracy required in their game (the view of the shaft is unobstructed). So it is a good alternative to the closed one.

Jim

 

[alstl]

Thanks for the replies. I picked up Byrne's Standard Book of Pool and Precision Pool by Karnov and Stauch.

When I feel confident with what I'm doing I might start looking to upgrade my cue. I know I'll probably get a variety of opinions, but what is a good cue in the $200 to $300 range.

Thanks

 

[Flex]

There are many cues in the range you mention that are fine.

There are a few things you may wish to consider if you are looking especially for a cue that plays very well but doesn't need to be very fancy.

First of all, it's been suggested before, and it's very good advice IMHO, to be sure to try out a good variety of cues. By that I don't mean to just shoot a few balls with each, but try to do very specific things with each and see how the cue works for you. Some of the shots I'd try would be the following: Set up a straight in shot and shoot a stop shot, a draw shot, and a power draw shot, and see how it works for you. Ditto for a force follow shot. Set up some shots that will require you to shoot with 2 tips of english, and get a feel for how much the cue ball will squirt to the side when you shoot it. You'll find that the cues will play very differently.

Try, for instance, a Meucci cue, with both the red dot and black dot shafts, if you can. They play differently.

Try a Predator sneaky pete cue with a predator 314 shaft.

Someone above recommended a Dufferin sneaky pete cue.

I'd suggest trying out several production cues first and not even think about a custom cue until you find out what you really like.

If there are any pool halls in your area with excellent players, ask them what they think. Sometimes these guys will have cues for sale, good ones, for a decent price.

And also, be aware that any cue you try will play very differently depending on the tip that is installed on it.

I hope this hasn't been confusing, and wish you the best of luck!

Cheers!

Flex

 

[alstl]

There are many cues in the range you mention that are fine.

There are a few things you may wish to consider if you are looking especially for a cue that plays very well but doesn't need to be very fancy.

First of all, it's been suggested before, and it's very good advice IMHO, to be sure to try out a good variety of cues. By that I don't mean to just shoot a few balls with each, but try to do very specific things with each and see how the cue works for you. Some of the shots I'd try would be the following: Set up a straight in shot and shoot a stop shot, a draw shot, and a power draw shot, and see how it works for you. Ditto for a force follow shot. Set up some shots that will require you to shoot with 2 tips of english, and get a feel for how much the cue ball will squirt to the side when you shoot it. You'll find that the cues will play very differently.

Try, for instance, a Meucci cue, with both the red dot and black dot shafts, if you can. They play differently.

Try a Predator sneaky pete cue with a predator 314 shaft.

Someone above recommended a Dufferin sneaky pete cue.

I'd suggest trying out several production cues first and not even think about a custom cue until you find out what you really like.

If there are any pool halls in your area with excellent players, ask them what they think. Sometimes these guys will have cues for sale, good ones, for a decent price.

And also, be aware that any cue you try will play very differently depending on the tip that is installed on it.

I hope this hasn't been confusing, and wish you the best of luck!

Cheers!

Flex

Not confusing at all, and good ideas. I'm in St Louis, no shortage of excellent players or pool halls. If I can find a place that will let me try out their cues I'll do what you suggest.

One thing I'm curious about is the effect of different tips on the ball, hard medium and soft.

 

[Pizza Bob]

Try the Cue & Cushion on Woodson in Overland. They have a variety of cues, from cheapo imports to high line customs. And if you really lose your mind, have one built to your specs - Jim Buss is just down the street and around the corner. Have fun.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

 

[Snapshot9]

suggestions ...

For $200 to $300, You can get a Lucasi. They don't play bad,and not bad
looking for the money.

You can also get a nice custom made Sneaky Pete (I have one by custom
cue maker with Stainless Steel joint that was $190 new).

If you are just starting in again, I would start with a medium tip, and then
when you had to replace it, put a medium hard tip on. I think layered tips
are best for wear and tear.

 

[Koop]

I know I'll probably get a variety of opinions, but what is a good cue in the $200 to $300 range.

Thanks

My choice in that price range has to go to Helmstetter. I've had 2 and they hit just as nice as the Schons I have had for half the money.

 

[prewarhero]

$300 cue

If I only had three hundred dollars for a cue I would call cuemakers I knew and asked them to make me a plain cue to my specs since I have become more and more picky with butt diamiter and taper, weight, and balance point. But If I did not know exactly what i wanted I would scour ebay and the rest of the country for a good used schon cue. You can find them for around 300 dollars. The first good cue I owned was a schon I bought for 275, this was after 3 different not so great custom cues. Schon makes the best cue for the money. I haven't shot with one in a few years, but it is a great all around cue-not to this way, not to that way. After a couple years you will be able to pin point any changes you require then order a custom job. ALSO,
If you are still in Iowa, Raven cues (micheal wagner near cedar rapids is awesome). If he can't get you one soon. Try Stan in Iowa city, he ownes a place called Stan's barber shop. He sells cues and stuff, he is honest, and his prices are fair. Tell him jordan sent you. If he forgot me by name tell him I am the one with the messed up coker, he will remember.
For lessons- go to leisure time billiards in cedar rapids, and ask for craig rice (call ahead). He has the best stroke in Iowa. Again, tell him i sent you. If he doesn't want to teach, he will play you for a dollar a rack and give pointers while he does it. I learned a ton of stuff from him.
Jordan

 

[Masayoshi]

Thanks for the replies. I picked up Byrne's Standard Book of Pool and Precision Pool by Karnov and Stauch.

it wasnt by robert byrne?

as for cues, i prefer mcdermott or meucci.

 

[Ronoh]

Here's a site that has some decent information, with video. At least it's a place to start and get an idea of what you want to do or try next. Hope it helps.

Click Me

 

[TheConArtist]

First, how much will a better (more expensive) cue help my game. All I ever played with before was house cues. My game did improve with the Crest, in part due to the fact that it's not warped. I'm tempted to get a better cue but don't want to spend 2 or 3 hundred bucks if it won't make any difference.

Second, is there a standard place to hold the cue? Do most people hold it on the wrap or on the end of the butt, or is simply personal preference?

Third, is there a best bridge to use? As a kid I got used to using an open bridge with little, ring and middle fingers extended and index finger curled in against the thumb. On tv I saw someone using a different open bridge, ring and middle fingers curled under with little and index extended and thumb against the index. I tried that and it seems a little better. Then there is the bridge with the index finger over top of the cue which I never used much. Is one of these better than others or is it just what works for you?

Finally, I've never played with a hard tip until this cue. Would a medium or soft time let me put more english on the ball? What are the tradeoffs between a hard tip and medium or soft?

I know these are pretty basic questions but I appreciate any replies.

Thanks

a good cue helps but it doesn't improve your game, If you have a good stroke you could use a broom with a leather tip, Find a good preshot routine first then maybe you would like a good cue to play with

As for holding the cue, you should hold it in the balance place, use your index finger and find the balance point of the cue, where it will balance on your finger then move you hand six inches back from that spot, this is where you should hold your hand, but although you could hold it anywhere you please, just this spot gives you the proper place for a good stroke, but some shots do cause you to have to hold the cue further back.

A bridge, what works for you and what is comfortable, i use an open bridge cause i like to see the cue well i am stroking and aiming, But i do use an closed bridge when i do draw shots and the break shot.

Hard tips, you have to keep chalking them, well you need to chalk up all the time but a hard tip does require more chalking, I use a soft tip cause i like the feel, and i do think i could get more english on the cueball using a soft tip. Cole 'TheConArtist'

 

[Billy_Bob]

I've experimented with different hardness of tips, tips made of different materials, and different shapes on the tip (quarter, nickel, dime).

Different tips will play differently.

And different cues will play differently. Many will have a different amount of cue ball deflection.

I have seen many players get a new cue - probably has a different tip, maybe different hardness of tip, and probably a different tip radius. Then also probably deflects the cue ball differently. Then their game goes down the drain for awhile until they get adjusted to the new cue.

I feel it is best to experiment with different tips (brands, materials, radius, hardness) and decide exactly what you like the best. Then stick with that forever. So if you get a new cue, first thing, cut off the tip which came with the cue, install *your* tip, which will have your hardness, radius, etc. Then it will play pretty much the same as your old cue which also had *your* tip on it.

You can even get a cheap $20 cue and install *your* tip and it will play pretty much the same!

Then also decide what taper you like (pro/euro), and the size of the shaft at the tip you like 11mm, 12mm, 12,5mm, 13mm, etc. These things can change how the cue hits and the amount of cue ball deflection. Also there are low deflection shafts and lower deflection shafts.

So basically if you experiment and then pick a certain specification of cue, then get a new cue with the same specifications, then it will play the same and no need to adjust to it.

So far as where to hold the cue, best to go to a good instructor. Read books on pool, etc.

For bridges, I sometimes use a closed bridge and sometimes an open bridge - depending on the shot. Experiment and learn to use both. The idea with the bridge is to firmly hold the shaft in place so it does not wobble left/right or sometimes so it does not wobble up/down. How you arrange your fingers to accomplish this is up to you. Best to be comfortable.

For weight of cue, I have found that it is easier for me to hit a very soft shot with a lighter cue like 19.5 oz. Sometimes I need to just barely tap the cue ball, and with a heavier cue, this is more difficult. (I may want to leave the cue ball very close to where the object ball was.)

For hardness of tips etc., I feel it is best to alway play with a tip which has the same shape (nickel, dime, etc.). Then when you get a new tip installed, it will have the same shape and play the same. Soft tips will grip the ball better, but will deform with a hard hit. Hard tips will keep their shape longer. Tips made of different materials will grip the ball better or worse. I feel a hard pig skin tip like a Moori III Q is best. Gets the best grip on the ball, yet keeps its shape the longest. Best to experiment with different tips on your own though. Try soft, medium, and hard. Try leather, pig skin, and phenolic. Try a quarter shape, nickel shape, and a dime shape. Then *you* will know what is the best for you.

 

[alstl]

If I only had three hundred dollars for a cue I would call cuemakers I knew and asked them to make me a plain cue to my specs since I have become more and more picky with butt diamiter and taper, weight, and balance point. But If I did not know exactly what i wanted I would scour ebay and the rest of the country for a good used schon cue. You can find them for around 300 dollars. The first good cue I owned was a schon I bought for 275, this was after 3 different not so great custom cues. Schon makes the best cue for the money. I haven't shot with one in a few years, but it is a great all around cue-not to this way, not to that way. After a couple years you will be able to pin point any changes you require then order a custom job. ALSO,
If you are still in Iowa, Raven cues (micheal wagner near cedar rapids is awesome). If he can't get you one soon. Try Stan in Iowa city, he ownes a place called Stan's barber shop. He sells cues and stuff, he is honest, and his prices are fair. Tell him jordan sent you. If he forgot me by name tell him I am the one with the messed up coker, he will remember.
For lessons- go to leisure time billiards in cedar rapids, and ask for craig rice (call ahead). He has the best stroke in Iowa. Again, tell him i sent you. If he doesn't want to teach, he will play you for a dollar a rack and give pointers while he does it. I learned a ton of stuff from him.
Jordan

My heart's still in Iowa but I've been living in St Louis for a long time. Thanks for the information.

 

[alstl]

a good cue helps but it doesn't improve your game, If you have a good stroke you could use a broom with a leather tip, Find a good preshot routine first then maybe you would like a good cue to play with

As for holding the cue, you should hold it in the balance place, use your index finger and find the balance point of the cue, where it will balance on your finger then move you hand six inches back from that spot, this is where you should hold your hand, but although you could hold it anywhere you please, just this spot gives you the proper place for a good stroke, but some shots do cause you to have to hold the cue further back.

A bridge, what works for you and what is comfortable, i use an open bridge cause i like to see the cue well i am stroking and aiming, But i do use an closed bridge when i do draw shots and the break shot.

Hard tips, you have to keep chalking them, well you need to chalk up all the time but a hard tip does require more chalking, I use a soft tip cause i like the feel, and i do think i could get more english on the cueball using a soft tip. Cole 'TheConArtist'

Thanks for the reply. My current cue has a balance point 2 1/2 inches in front of the wrap and 19 inches in front of the end of the butt. I am tall and have long arms, if I hold it the recommended 6 - 8 inches behind the balance point I don't have the 90 degree angle at point of impact, so I tend to hold farther back on the que. Maybe I need a que with a balance point farther back?