question on adjusting with BHE/FHE

[PKM]

For those using some kind of pivoting to apply English (backhand or fronthand English), how do you adjust if the pivot point does not fall on either your bridge or grip hand? It seems like it would be a fortuitous coincidence if it was exact either way with your natural bridge and grip (let's assume swerve is minimized).

Do you change your bridge or grip position, or do you adjust your aim in the required direction? With the latter you could end up adjusting in the opposite direction than you would normally for squirt, which is kind of weird to get used to (in other words, suppose squirt sends the CB to the right, you might have to aim further to the right if your pivoted aim is sending it too far left). Hopefully that makes sense.

I'm using an OB-1, and I think the pivot point is close to my grip hand, but I'm still learning the technique.

Any advice on learning to apply English is appreciated (I'm still a relative noob)

 

[Patrick Johnson]

If your pivot point is really close to your grip hand, then you can first slide your grip hand up to where it is, then move your front hand to apply the sidespin, then slide your grip hand back to its normal position before starting your practice strokes.

I'd be surprised if the "actual" pivot point was that far back, though. I used to think low squirt shafts had pivot points back there, but after measuring Predators, OB-1s and my own custom low squirt shafts I've never been able to actually measure one that long. The longest I've measured is my own at about 24" (5" in front of the joint).

I think the longer pivot point measurements must have included the effect of some swerve. Maybe that's a better measurement anyway for using fronthand english (like with your cue) or backhand english, because you want to adjust for real-life shots, not for theoretical "swerveless" squirt, but it makes it hard to figure what the "practical pivot point" should be.

This is a big reason I don't like BHE/FHE for myself. It "pretends" that the squirt adjustment can be based on a single pivot point when in reality the pivot point changes from shot to shot because of changing swerve. I suppose it works for its users like lots of systems do: it gives you a fixed reference from which to adjust to reality (either consciously or unconsciously).

By the way, Ron Shepard once described a way to aim-and-pivot for pivot points like mine that are midway between the bridge and grip hands. I think you move your front hand part way and then move the whole stick parallel the rest of the way to where you want your tip for the spin you need - but I don't remember it clearly. Maybe he'll see this and correct me... anybody know how to send a Batsignal?

pj
chgo

 

[PKM]

Thanks Patrick. I agree with your point about swerve, and I've been trying to learn to adjust with real-life shots so that it does take swerve into account. That's probably why I'm having trouble on some shots, trying to use the same pivot point.

It's hard for me to imagine moving both the bridge and grip hand with consistency, I think that's what Joe Tucker does with his Predator.

So do you pivot at all, and if so you are just adjusting by trial and error?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Thanks Patrick. I agree with your point about swerve, and I've been trying to learn to adjust with real-life shots so that it does take swerve into account. That's probably why I'm having trouble on some shots, trying to use the same pivot point.

It's hard for me to imagine moving both the bridge and grip hand with consistency, I think that's what Joe Tucker does with his Predator.

So do you pivot at all, and if so you are just adjusting by trial and error?

I don't actually pivot; I just line up with my cue at the angle I think is needed based on experience - I try to see exactly how much adjustment I'm making and compare it with my "mental picture library" of successful aims for that kind of shot (length, speed, spin, etc.).

I collected those mental pictures by trial and lots of error, but there's less and less error as the years go by and I like having the entire process "transparent" and not relying on a "black box" measurement for part of it. That makes it much easier for me to trust it and to recover it when I hit a slump or after I take some time off from the game.

pj
chgo

 

[Jal]

For those using some kind of pivoting to apply English (backhand or fronthand English), how do you adjust if the pivot point does not fall on either your bridge or grip hand?

If the cue's pivot point is n times your bridge length, take up 1/n'th of the offset by pivoting about your bridge, then parallel shift the rest of the way. For instance, if your bridge length is 7" and the pivot point is at 21", then pivot for 1/3'rd of the offset and parallel shift the rest of it.

Another way is if the pivot point is marked. With the cue pointing at the desired offset, line the pivot point up with the center of the cueball along the desired direction you want the cueball to go.

I don't do it either way so I can't vouch for the practicality of either method. But they are consistent with the aim-and-pivot definition of the pivot point.

Jim

 

[Patrick Johnson]

JAL:
If the cue's pivot point is n times your bridge length, take up 1/n'th of the offset by pivoting about your bridge, then parallel shift the rest of the way. For instance, if your bridge length is 7" and the pivot point is at 21", then pivot for 1/3'rd of the offset and parallel shift the rest of it.

That's the one I remember from Ron Shepard (or was it you that described it on RSB a long time ago, Jim?).

Anyway, call off the Batsignal.

pj
chgo

 

[Jal]

That's the one I remember from Ron Shepard (or was it you that described it on RSB a long time ago, Jim?

Most likely I got it from Mr. Shepard, or perhaps even you for that matter, forgot the details, worked it out, then claimed it for my own. My apology to him (or you) if that's the case, but I'm not exactly sure what's right in these situations.

Jim

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Me:
That's the one I remember from Ron Shepard (or was it you that described it on RSB a long time ago, Jim?

Jim:
Most likely I got it from Mr. Shepard, or perhaps even you for that matter, forgot the details, worked it out, then claimed it for my own. My apology to him (or you) if that's the case, but I'm not exactly sure what's right in these situations.

It definitely wasn't me, and if it was Ron I know he'd want it spread around freely. He's pretty free with everything he knows about pool (which is plenty), including his excellent paper, Amateur Physics for the Amateur Pool Player, available here.

pj
chgo