Question to Mechanics

[Cuephoric]

I love these discussions! So many ways out there!

I dunno, reading the posts alot of you guys have written I still find myself shaking my head. I use one four foot Empire level and one 12" Starrett. I've never seen the need for more. I'm a little confused at the comments about liking small levels because you can find imperfections in the slate. If you find a "valley" in the slate of a few thousands of an inch that runs between points that are 12-18", what the hell can you do about it? If the game were played with marbles on a glass surface I could understand what some of you are saying. But my job isn't to correct a manufacturing anomaly that results in a "valley" on the table that's imperceptible to anyone actually playing pool on cloth and rolling the balls at more than .0005 miles per hour.

To be honest, I view the levels I use as much as a tool to reassure the customer as a tool for me to level the table. I'll use a ball on bare slate any day of the week and get results that any pro would be happy with.

Sometimes it's not a manufacturers anomaly but the result of bad work in the past. Part of our job is to correct the mistakes, making our job easier in the future. At least that's how I see it.
I've run across tables around this part of the country that have had so much bad work done that it's easier to rebuild the table from the ground up than correct what they've done.
Setting a 12" starrett on each end of the seam and having one in front of you speeds you up and tells you if the center is high or low as you go, so you can make the corrections as needed.
By having one on the other side just saves you a few seconds of having to move your level.lol But I like doing it anyway. I like being able to look across and see what the other side is doing sometimes.
After I've gotten it where everything says it's level by starrett, I generally will slow roll balls across the table to double check things. Then I glue and seal my seams.
I guess I'm just a measure twice, then do it again before cutting kind of guy, but I don't spend enough time in one spot for someone to call me if they're table has a weird roll somewhere, so I just nip it before it can start.
I use to bring a 4 foot level, a 2 foot level and a 12" starrett, and still do, but I just added the number of starretts to the mix.
Leveling a 6x12 with a ball is a long time consuming process-I'll stick with my starretts.

 

[The Turk]

I understand why you would question the use of multiple levels, it's a high initial expense. I have learned a lot about the performance of different frames, light legs, hysteresis problems with multiple levels [especially in new set-ups because improper storage of frames and even warped rails can greatly effect the final level of a table]. Stored energy in frames can drive you crazy with a single level, however multiples will point out the problem much quicker, if a single level even shows you at all.

Everyone differs so much with level types and sizes. How does your system or approach to leveling begin. do most of you chase the low, raise the center? This is a pretty cool forum, debate is healthy!

 

[TableTek]

Levels

Welcome to AzForums Bob,
As you know, I was a recent convert to Starett levels. Before coming out to the Ilsap mechanics meeting this year I had been using a 4ft and a 2ft level, along with a six dot Aramith Pro Cup cue ball. Most times the table would roll within a ball width, but some tables were just very erratic. Many hours were wasted rolling the ball to get the twist of a slate out.

Currently I use 6 Starett 12" levels. I bought them new and at the same time so I hopefully don't have any troubles for a while.

The beauty of these levels other than the outright accuracy is when used in groups you can immediately tell whether the slate is flat, crowned or twisted. I am curious to find a faster way for the same accuracy, but you probably won't see me without these for a long long time. Thanks for getting me on board with these PoolTable911 and The Turk!
Rob

 

[QuickEdward]

Leveling a 6x12 with a ball is a long time consuming process-I'll stick with my starretts.

Thank God I don't run into them too often.

As far as the levels go, I think I'm going to quit being a doubting Thomas so to speak and get a couple more Starretts and give the "multiple level" method a shot. I'm a cheap bastard, but I guess I can always get my money back out of them if I still think it's overkill after using them awhile...