Questions for Converts - Somewhat complicated

[Gorramjayne]

While I grew up with snooker cues in the house and once in a great while got to shoot on a snooker table, 75% of my shooting was pool so I never really in my youth learned pure snooker discipline in its own right.

But, in recent months I've started playing a lot of 10-ball on 10-foot Diamond tables. Aiming on long tables (even snooker tables) has been just fine in my usual pool stance. But holding my body steady and twisting my neck to get low for all these longer and more often straighter-angle shots eventually causes fatigue.

So, the last week or so I've been switching back to a snooker stance at the pool table. After a brief adjustment period I am truly amazed at the greatly reduced strain on my neck and just how naturally the cue wants to glide on a ad ead straight line even at maximum power than in my pool stance and I can repeat it for hours without feeling the same fatigue I would in my pool stance.

However, I have encountered a few problems!

1) It is extremely uncomfortable jack up on shots and/or raise up to play close-in tight high-angle control shots that happen more often in pool. Do snooker converts take more of a pool stance when they have to jack up and cue close to the rail or over obstacles?

2) For some reason, making extremely thin cuts at long distance seems more challenging in a snooker stance. I suspect some of this is my level of comfort in the stance and some of it is that the snooker stance isn't as suited to sending the heavier balls down-table at enough pace to minimize extraneous variables. I have always noticed that professional pool players will take on difficult cut angles that professional snooker players will usually leave alone. Other than the obvious added difficulty of tighter pockets and smaller balls, I thought some of this was that in snooker what with having up to 15 balls 'on' (like straight pool) it's rarer to be forced into a difficult cut especially when retreating back up to balk is so effective, so snooker players are less practiced/comfortable with extremely thin cuts.Yet try and try as I might to apply my pool experience, the micro-thin cuts just weren't working for me in a snooker stance as well as they do in a pool stance.

I think this may also be partially related to my other problem (#3) which is that in the looser pool stance, it's easy to get down on a shot and then make the fine-tuning aim adjustments, like lining up for sidespin, compensating my aim for that spin, or adjusting to put the ball to one side of the pocket or the other. I notice when I get down in a snooker stance, however, I have much less freedom to adjust to hit to one side of the cue ball or fine-tune my line of stroke before everything starts to feel wonky. The problem is even more noticeable when I use a closed bridge. (Yes I have been using a closed bridge on many shots when in a snooker stance, am I a heretic yet?) Basically, in the more rigid snooker stance, which otherwise has a wonderful tendency to produce a laser-straight stroke, I feel like I have a smaller 'zone of freedom' where stroke flows freely.


Niels Feijen strikes me as a pool player whose stance is very solid and whose stroke is more mechanical like is seen in snooker, and his stance closely matches some snooker players, and he can do all the things pool players with big flowing strokes do, so it must be possible. What's the verdict here, do snooker players manage to just learn to use their snooker fundamentals to power pool balls around and cue freely in odd positions? Or do some adjustments have to be made?


For what it's worth, I play with skinnier shafts than most American pool players (11.5 and 11.85mm) and have a shorter backswing when I stroke, and lift the butt of the cue very little at the end of my backswing so I'm a bit closer to to snooker fundamentals than your typical pool player to begin with so I'd really like to experiment with a snooker stance and see what kinds of adjustments can be made, to bring snooker accuracy to my pool game.

 

[acesinc1999]

.....Some of this may be down to comfort, but does anybody who has transitioned from snooker to pool have a trick to be able to get the serious energy delivery necessary to manipulate the heavier pool balls at long distances from a snooker stance? .....

Why would anyone transition from snooker to pool?

:wink: But seriously, it seems to me, one of the really big differences between snooker players and pool players (and this is not meant to be a jab in either direction) is that a natural snooker player approaches the game more as an art form. He or she knows what works and what doesn't work though in many cases may not have the foggiest notion as to why. Of course there are fundamentals that every player should follow, but overthinking and overanalysis is surely a death knell. Pool players on the other hand seem to approach the game more from an scientific/engineering point of view. There is a reason for everything and there is a right and wrong for everything. Pool players can discuss the minutiae of how a leather wrap versus a linen wrap will affect a cue's balance point. (Snooker player: Wrap? On a cue? ) This is why the snooker forum stays stagnant for long stretches at a time...just nothing to talk about.

I think it is good that you are asking these questions. I know that I am completely incompetent to answer them, but I hope you find the direction you need.

Oh, yeah, and lastly: Play more snooker!

 

[Cameron Smith]

It's somewhat difficult to diagnose the issues you mention without video or even being there in person. But I expect if you haven't had a qualified instructor help you change your set up, some of these issues may be a direct result of some flaws in your stance. I say this because I had the same problem when I started playing with a snooker stance and it took an experienced player to sort me out.

1). I think this may be related to the lack of freedom or movement in your arm due to the snooker stance. I'm only guessing, but I expect in your pool stance you may have become accustom to raising your back hand a little bit more on the backstroke. If you are now reducing that movement and just coming straight back, then I can see how you may feel as though you've lost some power. Furthermore, if you were raising your hand more with the pool stance, you would possibly have been hitting downwards and getting the extra spin.

When I straightened my stroke I found that I had a momentary loss of power. The solution for me was to just focus on keeping my arm and hand relaxed throughout the stroke to help increase speed and also ensure that I follow through. Make sure to always finish the stroke. A smooth acceleration is also key.

For increased draw, perhaps play around aiming a bit lower on the cue ball than you are accustom.

2) Depends on how jacked up you are speaking, but if I'm right over a ball then yes it's closer to a pool stance for me. If you notice the top snooker players shooting over a ball, they do not maintain a strict snooker stance. It's a different stance entirely. Chin still on the cue though.

You may have heard the advice to look at the cue ball last when shooting over a ball. I consider this doubly useful in snooker. A snooker cue ball is not very forgiving of an errant stroke so accuracy is paramount when jacked up on a ball.

3) I've also encountered this problem and for me it was a result of my hips being in the way of my cue due to a more square stance. In a side ways pool stance my hips didn't get too close to the cue or the line of the shot, but when I transitioned that was an immediate issue. I had problems with long thin shots and other shots where the object ball was a significant distance from the cue ball.

Again, these suggestions are a result of my own experience so I don't know if it applies to you. With that in mind it may just take some time for you to become accustom to the new change. If you are switching between stances, some of these issues may simply come from that.

 

[Gorramjayne]

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I've started ironing out a lot of these issues. The first big help was to relax my right leg just a little bit, as I noticed keeping it locked perfectly straight also locked my hips too much for me to be able to comfortably adjust my final stroking line when I got down on the shot. This also got my power back up even despite a shorter, flatter stroke than I take in my pool stance.

You were also right that I was striking down on the ball a little bit when drawing, my mistake was standing too close to the table, holding my head more 'over' the shot where it would be in a pool stance rather than further behind it and down the line. I'm sure the fact pool tables are on average an inch or two lower than snooker tables makes some stance adjustments necessary to keep a level cue.

Not locking myself rigidly into a 'pure' snooker stance and relaxing my right leg ever so slight also gave me back enough dexterity to comfortably shave fine cuts. I think some of it also was that in a pool stance my head was closer to the cue ball and although I had to twist my neck to my head down, I could also raise my head and move it left/right using depth perception to double-check a long cut, and in the more square-on snooker stance I have to get used to not being able to move my head about as much once I get down on a shot.

Interestingly I've found pinching the cue between my thumb and fingertips rather than cradling/wrapping my hand around works very well in a snooker stance.

Second interesting thing, since a pool ball is about 30% heavier than a snooker ball, I experimented putting a BIG weight bolt in my cue taking it up to 22 ounces (30% more than a 17-ounce snooker cue) just for funsies, expecting it to play horribly. Nope! With the shorter, very linear, and more rapidly accelerating stroke you get out of a snooker stance, a 22-ounce cue was still wonderfully controllable and offered good touch. I don't know that I want a 22-ounce cue but after some more experimentation I may play around between 19.5 up to 21 ounces which is heavier than I would have gone playing form a pool stance.

 

[Cameron Smith]

I'm glad to hear you are working the kinks out. A new technique/approach is always painful to adopt, but the rewards can be phenomenal.