rankings in leagues

TAP League ratings are usually 1-2 pts less than APA (at least in WA state). A TAP 5 is pretty strong league player (occasional break-and runs, knows strategy, plays safes, OK kicking ability), while many APA 5's are just better than avid beginners.
I am a 6 TAP in 8 and 9 ball, don't know any APA 6 who would play me for less than 2 on the wire in a race to 7 (assuming they know what "on the wire" means).
 
FastManners said:
Some higher level players in NYC play APA 8 Ball in the city. I wont name names, but there are A+ and Open players from Society and Amsterdam who play APA 8 Ball. What is a weird situation is that an APA SL7 can be anywhere from a C+ to an Open player in the BCA leagues in the city. This means that there would be huge weight in the BCA if a C+ played an Open player, but playing in the APA it would be an even race.

I am not sure where I am going with this, it has just always seemed odd to me.
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Wow, a C+ against an Open player straight up in APA ? That's 5 games on a race to 10 in BCA 9 ball at Amsterdam. Guess maybe the smaller table and 8 ball vs. 9 ball makes things closer, but sounds like a huge gap in skill/ability.
 
ronscuba said:
Wow, a C+ against an Open player straight up in APA ? That's 5 games on a race to 10 in BCA 9 ball at Amsterdam. Guess maybe the smaller table and 8 ball vs. 9 ball makes things closer, but sounds like a huge gap in skill/ability.
Click to expand...

A low 7 should be able to start putting racks together here and there. If they play very well, they may be able to go the match without missing(just D's and dead breaks to end). In a race to 5, they should be able to hang with most other 7s if they're playing well. Most of my matches are in the 10 & under inning range and I consider myself a mediocre 7. When I'm playing well, it'll average under 1 inning/game, like 5-2 in 4 or 5 innings or something. In short 8b races, I can hang with strong players if I'm doing okay, so a C+/B vs Open can be a fair race to 5 if the low player's doing well. A couple of break-n-runs, a couple of good safeties.. and some luck. :thumbup:

Now, we can turn it around and ask what your definition of a C+ player is. :p Different people can also have very different skill sets and have the same rating, too.
 
Snapshot9 said:
APA to other leagues, you have to know how each of them handicaps.

For example - BCA 4 man team is handicapped 1 to 60. Take 60/7 (maximum handicap in APA 8 ball) = 8.57 x 6 (the player's handicap) =
51.42 rounded down to 51.

VNEA has 13 handicap levels, so 13/7 = 1.857 x 6 (player's handicap) =
11.142 rounded down to 11.

For an APA4: BCA formula = 60/7=8.57 x 4 = 34.28 rounded down to 34.

VNEA formula = 13/7 = 1.857 x 4 = 7.428 rounded down to 7

For each level in APA when converted to BCA is 8.57 handicap points.
For each level in APA when converted to VNEA is 1.857 handicap points.

The APA does not have enough handicap levels. This puts more of a range of players at the same level, which promotes sandbagging than say the BCA. The BCA and VNEA are more definitive because they have more levels of handicapping.
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This formula is flawed. It can't work because not even the best players never lose a rack. The BCA league I play on has a handicap which is just an average of your score per week, maxed at 50. You play 1 rack against 5 different opponents, each ball pocketed is 1 point and the 8 ball is 3 points, so 10 points for a rack win. According to your formula, a 7 is a 50 (never loses a rack), a 6 is 50/7*6 = 43 and so on.

I'm a pretty strong 7 in my area, but in BCA I'm only a 43/44. Which means I win on average about 4.5 racks out of 5 every league night. I would put SLs into ranges like the following:

BCA 40-50 = APA 7
BCA 35-40 = APA 6
BCA 30-35 = APA 5
...and so on.

But again, it varies widely on where you play and who you play against, but if you're playing APA and BCA with the same set of people as in my example, it should probably work out to something like above. Cheers!
 
I may get slammed for this but, people are forgetting that in the APA you can effect your handicap by sandbagging...
so where is the "true measure" of a players skill level? There isn't one in the APA.

I'm not saying this to get into a debate with anyone...just stating my opinion on my lack of faith with the handicap system in the APA.

.
 
smahalko said:
I may get slammed for this but, people are forgetting that in the APA you can effect your handicap by sandbagging...
so where is the "true measure" of a players skill level? There isn't one in the APA.

I'm not saying this to get into a debate with anyone...just stating my opinion on my lack of faith with the handicap system in the APA.

.
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Any particular reason APA only has 6 handicap levels ? Have they ever considered making more levels ?
 
You wouldn't be able to finish until the next day. In most place where APA is hosted, your entire team will be playing on one table. Usually an all night affair. Widening the handicap means more games to play.

From my understanding, the APA offers more than just APA 8-ball. Which is the handicap scale you are referring. 9-ball the APA handicap scale goes to 9, and APA also offers a Masters division. In many territories it may not be lucrative or sustainable interest to run a separate 9-ball or Masters division, which is why all the players huddle under the 8-ball league.

ronscuba said:
Any particular reason APA only has 6 handicap levels ? Have they ever considered making more levels ?
Click to expand...
 
Our Apa LO said she raised me to a 7 due to my recent win percentage. She made no mention of innings or B&Rs, etc. in fact, I fooled around a lot in those weaker divisions so I probably averaged a couple innings per game which is about right for a sl6.
 
ronscuba said:
Wow, a C+ against an Open player straight up in APA ? That's 5 games on a race to 10 in BCA 9 ball at Amsterdam. Guess maybe the smaller table and 8 ball vs. 9 ball makes things closer, but sounds like a huge gap in skill/ability.
Click to expand...

Although a small table is a leveler, I have rarely seen one of the "lower" 7's beat one of the monsters or even the 7's below that, i.e. the A 7's.

I do understand why it is capped at 7 though, as pushing the handicap even one extra level can add a significant time to the end of the night.
It is one of the reasons I stopped playing bar leagues in New York.
 
ctyhntr said:
You wouldn't be able to finish until the next day. In most place where APA is hosted, your entire team will be playing on one table. Usually an all night affair. Widening the handicap means more games to play......
Click to expand...

I guess no APA for me. I'm too old to be playing all night during the week.

I like the handicap structure in our league. It keeps things pretty even in my opinion, slightly favoring the lower HC player.
 
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