Re working my old table, have you ever seen this -RJS

[Hard Knock Cues]

These are old photos from a table I picked up about 6 years ago. One of those I've got some in-laws that want to get rid of this old beat up table that's taking up too much room, so I grabbed it. I put it together with new cloth and rubber back then. Knowing the things I've learned from all of you on AZ billiards, I'm going to redo it again. Along with rail adjustments because of it's age and the need to make it play better.

I believe it's a 1912 St. Elmo's by Brunswick. It is a bit of a Frankenstein because there is no head rail. There are two number four rails and I think two number five rails. The legs look like they were rebuilt out of 2x8, So they don't have the inlay work the sides have. The aprons are not original. According to the story, when the people originally built the house in to 70's, an Italian man built the table for the people. The in-laws bought the house around 2000 or so and the table came with the house. I imagine there were a couple tables in a basement somewhere that got ruined by flood or something and somebody put together a table out of a couple.

Anyway, some interesting things are how the pockets are cut into the slate which is an inch and a half thick. Makes me wonder if it was a homemade job from say a set a slate from a carom table. There were some obviously old remnants of lead in the joints where the wood meets the slate and also in the joints between the pieces. Then plaster Paris possibly and wax was used at a later time. I reworked all the pockets and used Bondo so when I uncover it I'll send those pictures out. When I did it I used the black j&j rubber. so I'm going to reuse them in order to have a real comparison in the effects of making the correct adjustments to the rail bevel.

I'll try to post my progress as I move along but I am having difficulty getting pictures loaded up because I'm a little bit older and not that computer savvy but I'll figure it out like I always try to. I had to screenshot these so I hope they're working for everyone. This is also a part-time thing for me so I'm not always very quick about responding but I'll try.

So my questions are does anybody have any experience with or identifying this table?
Has anyone seen the pockets cut out of the slate this way?
And has anyone seen fragments a lead used in the slate joints?
I'm sure other questions will pop up, but let's start here. Thanks to everyone who has any information that can help educate me.

 

[bignick31985]

I have no insights, however those "created/reworked" pockets/slate cuts look hacked up for sure. Interested in seeing who may know more about your table though.

 

[kid]

Pins between the slates are common on old tables.
As for the slate cuts , they probably didn’t have big holesaws to cut the slate pockets. I’ve seen a bunch finished this way with a wood block . My guess is it predates ww1 and the slate being 1.5 inch
With 6 legs it must be a snooker table, not a hacked caroom


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant AzBilliards Forums

 

[Hard Knock Cues]

Don't think I mentioned It is a 4-1/2 by 9 .
Definitely not a snooker table because the rails are too high.

 

[yankee817299]

Could the slate have been damaged at one time and trimmed off? I'm not sure if it could delaminate like glued wood or not. Growing up our house had a slate roof on it and over the years some of the slate shingles would bubble and flake away, causing the nail holes to enlarge and slip over the head of the nail, but that roof lasted well over a 100 years.

 

[Hard Knock Cues]

Could the slate have been damaged at one time and trimmed off? I'm not sure if it could delaminate like glued wood or not. Growing up our house had a slate roof on it and over the years some of the slate shingles would bubble and flake away, causing the nail holes to enlarge and slip over the head of the nail, but that roof lasted well over a 100 years.

I don't think that's the case, all 6 pockets are done this way and the slate is in fine condition otherwise. I was hoping that some of the experienced mechanics would have seen this before and have some insight.

 

[Dartman]

It would help to rip off the rest of the cloth and provide some better pocket pics.

 

[bradsh98]

I don't think that's the case, all 6 pockets are done this way and the slate is in fine condition otherwise. I was hoping that some of the experienced mechanics would have seen this before and have some insight.

The pocket cut-outs are common with tables from the late 1800's to the early 1900's. I believe that it may have been done that way to allow for the leather pocket tabs to be nailed in to the wood.

Typically, I like to fill the gaps and even repair the damaged wood, using Bondo.

 

[Hard Knock Cues]

The pocket cut-outs are common with tables from the late 1800's to the early 1900's. I believe that it may have been done that way to allow for the leather pocket tabs to be nailed in to the wood.

Typically, I like to fill the gaps and even repair the damaged wood, using Bondo.

That makes sense as the table from the investigation I've done make me think it's from around 1912. It's the use of lead for filler I've wondered about.
The pictures are from several years ago when I first pulled it apart. I repaired and/or replaced the wood at slate level and used Bondo to smooth it out. I didn't take many pictures back then but will try to document it better now on.
I hope to uncover more of it in the coming weeks and can show the past repairs I've done. I'm planning to make a jig to ride in the featherstrip groove for modifications to the rail angle so the rubber will sit correctly.

 

[Hard Knock Cues]

So after I uncovered my rails I realize I ended up using k66 and so I'm not reusing that rubber. I did use an inferior rubber because this is a experiment and I didn't want to waste a good set of super speed. I built a jig to adjust the angle on the rails and it came out pretty well. Unfortunately, I can't download the pictures of the cut rail because it says they're too large for some reason. Here's a picture of my finished nose height. The only downfall is it did enlarge the playing field by about 3/16 of an inch. I am Wondering if I took twice as much off the end rails would it matter. 50 and 3/16" by 100 and 3/8". Still twice as long as it is wide. Table plays accurate with the three bank shot, but I think the inferior rubber is an issue. I didn't uncover the bed because I wanted to see how things played before I went through that trouble and I need to practice now that it's been a couple weeks without a table.