Rear foot in line with shot

[zpele]

I was recently watching Appletons video and he touched briefly on the line of your rear foot. I feel like we don't talk about foot positioning enough and it is often overlooked.

I overlooked it myself until watching that video and have since begun really paying attention to the line my feet are on. Setting your rear foot in line to the shot and then stepping into the shot with your forward foot forces your arm to come down straight into the shot and realizing this has helped me get to that next level in a few days.

That being said he doesn't touch much on the line of the forward foot when you step into the shot and I was wondering if any instructors or high level players out there had any insight on this.

 

[Agent 99]

I was recently watching Appletons video and he touched briefly on the line of your rear foot. I feel like we don't talk about foot positioning enough and it is often overlooked.

I overlooked it myself until watching that video and have since begun really paying attention to the line my feet are on. Setting your rear foot in line to the shot and then stepping into the shot with your forward foot forces your arm to come down straight into the shot and realizing this has helped me get to that next level in a few days.

That being said he doesn't touch much on the line of the forward foot when you step into the shot and I was wondering if any instructors or high level players out there had any insight on this.

I have never seen this video but find what you are saying a bit confusing.

My rear foot is usually perpendicular to the shot, my front foot is in-line with the shot.

If you have your rear foot pointing in the direction of the shot line, it will raise your grip hand, making it more difficult to shoot with a level cue.

What am I missing here?

 

[zpele]

I have never seen this video but find what you are saying a bit confusing.

My rear foot is usually perpendicular to the shot, my front foot is in-line with the shot.

If you have your rear foot pointing in the direction or the shot line, it will raise your grip hand, making it more difficult to shoot with a level cue.

What am I missing here?

Your rear foot is perpendicular to the shot? So your body is out of line on the side with the cue unless you somehow step into the shot with the foot on the same side of your body as the cue. I'm also not sure how your foot will raise your hand.

 

[ronscuba]

I believe what he means is the rear foot is stepping on the line of the shot. He does not say anything about where the toes are pointing.

I think many people's toes pointing in various directions. Might be due to differences in body type, posture, flexibility, etc., but rear foot stepping on the line seems to be a common suggestion.

 

[sfleinen]

I have never seen this video but find what you are saying a bit confusing.

My rear foot is usually perpendicular to the shot, my front foot is in-line with the shot.

If you have your rear foot pointing in the direction or the shot line, it will raise your grip hand, making it more difficult to shoot with a level cue.

What am I missing here?

Not true (the bolded part). Snooker players have [what pool players call] the "rear foot" on the shot line -- literally stepping onto the shot line -- and the toes pointed into that shot line. Then, you bend over at the waist, letting your whole trunk "flop over" onto the table, with most of your weight on that "rear foot." Which incidentally, that foot is properly called "the planted foot" in snooker because that foot isn't very much "behind" or to the rear of the other foot, due to the very square-on stance as a result. Snooker players, and not pool players, are renowned for cueing with a level cue, so I have no idea what you mean with this "raising the grip hand" business. (It does sound like the title of a pool movie, though; e.g. "Raising the Grip Hand" in Raising Arizona fashion. )

What Darren is talking about, is called a "boxer stance" in snooker, whereby it's a melding of the traditional snooker stance, but with that "rear foot" turned slightly outwards from the shot line -- perhaps at 45 degrees or less. In other words, you step on the shot line with that "rear foot" first, and as you're stepping the other foot down, you're pivoting that rear foot to compensate for the now-45-degree angle to the cue that your body is now taking.

What you are describing is a modified Dr. Lanson Perkins stance, as detailed in Mark Wilson's book, "Play Great Pool."

Not to say any of these stances is wrong, but it helps to really know the details of, and how to make, the various stances properly so as not to give out incorrect information or suppositions.

-Sean

 

[Agent 99]

Your rear foot is perpendicular to the shot? So your body is out of line on the side with the cue unless you somehow step into the shot with the foot on the same side of your body as the cue. I'm also not sure how your foot will raise your hand.

I have never seen anyone shoot pool with their rear foot in line with the shot line.

But if it works for you go for it ... If your rear foot is in-line with the shot you would be standing on the ball of the rear foot, raising your grip hand.

When your rear foot is perpendicular (or there about ) to the shot line your rear shoulder will be lower, not only because the foot is turned out, but because you will be able to have a wider stance, lowering your entire body as well as giving you a more solid stance.

 

[zpele]

I believe what he means is the rear foot is stepping on the line of the shot. He does not say anything about where the toes are pointing.

I think many people's toes pointing in various directions. Might be due to differences in body type, posture, flexibility, etc., but rear foot stepping on the line seems to be a common suggestion.

Listen to it again... He says, 'my right foot is pointing towards the cue and the one ball'

If you have the video the explanation starts around 4.30

 

[spliced]

In Lee Brett's book and video he explains how stepping on the shot line with your lead (rear) foot is vitally important to shotmaking. Mark Wilson's book he states that only the toes of the rear foot should be on the shotline. I have incorporated this into my game and have found it extremely helpful. Basically, with your back foot on the shotline you are always able to line up in a correct stance

 

[Agent 99]

Not true (the bolded part). Snooker players have [what pool players call] the "rear foot" on the shot line -- literally stepping onto the shot line -- and the toes pointed into that shot line. Then, you bend over at the waist, letting your whole trunk "flop over" onto the table, with most of your weight on that "rear foot." Which incidentally, that foot is properly called "the planted foot" in snooker because that foot isn't very much "behind" or to the rear of the other foot, due to the very square-on stance as a result. Snooker players, and not pool players, are renowned for cueing with a level cue, so I have no idea what you mean with this "raising the grip hand" business. (It does sound like the title of a pool movie, though; e.g. "Raising the Grip Hand" in Raising Arizona fashion. )

What Darren is talking about, is called a "boxer stance" in snooker, whereby it's a melding of the traditional snooker stance, but with that "rear foot" turned slightly outwards from the shot line -- perhaps at 45 degrees or less. In other words, you step on the shot line with that "rear foot" first, and as you're stepping the other foot down, you're pivoting that rear foot to compensate for the now-45-degree angle to the cue that your body is now taking.

What you are describing is a modified Dr. Lanson Perkins stance, as detailed in Mark Wilson's book, "Play Great Pool."

Not to say any of these stances is wrong, but it helps to really know the details of, and how to make, the various stances properly so as not to give out incorrect information or suppositions.

-Sean

Oh, ok snooker ... I am not a snooker player and never use a stance with my feet on the same plane (basically both feet under my shoulders) and my upper body flopped over the cue.

Thanks for explaining what the OP was attempting to say ... I think. :smile:

 

[zpele]

Not true (the bolded part). Snooker players have [what pool players call] the "rear foot" on the shot line -- literally stepping onto the shot line -- and the toes pointed into that shot line. Then, you bend over at the waist, letting your whole trunk "flop over" onto the table, with most of your weight on that "rear foot." Which incidentally, that foot is properly called "the planted foot" in snooker because that foot isn't very much "behind" or to the rear of the other foot, due to the very square-on stance as a result. Snooker players, and not pool players, are renowned for cueing with a level cue, so I have no idea what you mean with this "raising the grip hand" business. (It does sound like the title of a pool movie, though; e.g. "Raising the Grip Hand" in Raising Arizona fashion. )

What Darren is talking about, is called a "boxer stance" in snooker, whereby it's a melding of the traditional snooker stance, but with that "rear foot" turned slightly outwards from the shot line -- perhaps at 45 degrees or less. In other words, you step on the shot line with that "rear foot" first, and as you're stepping the other foot down, you're pivoting that rear foot to compensate for the now-45-degree angle to the cue that your body is now taking.

What you are describing is a modified Dr. Lanson Perkins stance, as detailed in Mark Wilson's book, "Play Great Pool."

Not to say any of these stances is wrong, but it helps to really know the details of, and how to make, the various stances properly so as not to give out incorrect information or suppositions.

-Sean

Thank you for the backup but I'm not sure he turns his rear foot at anytime during the shot. He repeats several times that his rear foot is in line with the cueball and the object ball. He doesn't say that he turns his rear foot as he steps into the shot and he actually says he puts more weight on the front foot than the rear.

 

[Agent 99]

In Lee Brett's book and video he explains how stepping on the shot line with your lead (rear) foot is vitally important to shotmaking. Mark Wilson's book he states that only the toes of the rear foot should be on the shotline. I have incorporated this into my game and have found it extremely helpful. Basically, with your back foot on the shotline you are always able to line up in a correct stance

Now this makes sense, as long as we are not talking snooker ... The rear foot on the shot line, not toes pointing in the direction of the shot line. This makes sense, perhaps the video is causing confusion because of it's language.

 

[sfleinen]

Thank you for the backup but I'm not sure he turns his rear foot at anytime during the shot. He repeats several times that his rear foot is in line with the cueball and the object ball. He doesn't say that he turns his rear foot as he steps into the shot and he actually says he puts more weight on the front foot than the rear.

True, there are many variations of the boxer stance, and Darren's is but one of them. It works VERY successfully for pool, because it gives some semblance of the square-on orientation to the shot, but with the pool sense of slightly turned. As for the weight distribution, definitely -- I wouldn't be surprised if his weight distribution is 50/50 or even 60/40 in favor of the "other" foot -- which means, he's also slightly leaning forward as well. If you look at pictures of Darren's stance while in matches, you'll see that his toes are NOT pointed into the shot line (i.e. at the cue ball), but rather turned out/away slightly.

Now, this is Darren's breakshot stance, but if you watch videos of him shooting normal shots, you'll see the foot placement is the same:

The traditional square-on snooker stance, however, has more of a "planted" foot -- oriented with the toes pointing right at the cue ball -- and you place most of that weight on that leg. Your other leg just sidesteps and forward just a bit (about shoulder width or slightly more), and you should feel like you're plastered up against a wall on your right side (if right-handed).

Once that back foot starts to turn away from the shot line, you'll find that weight distribution occurs as well.

One of the hardest things for me to learn, as a pool player who converted to snooker, was how to get the weight distribution right. Pool players were always about "comfort" above all else, with even weight distribution, while snooker players were all about alignment above all else, with weight distribution favoring the leg on the same side of the body as the grip hand.

A good video that describes this:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=gSK4w_9S_x0

Hope this helps clarify!
-Sean

 

[zpele]

Now this makes sense, as long as we are not talking snooker ... The rear foot on the shot line, not toes pointing in the direction of the shot line. This makes sense, perhaps the video is causing confusion because of it's language.

Sorry if I'm bristling at you maybe it's the tone of your post. But to clarify the poster you quoted is saying the same thing I am. The rear foot (and toes) are facing in the direction of the shot. He is not referencing snooker instructors either he is referencing well known pool instructors.

That being said there are many different body types and this stance may not work for you. I know pool players generally are all about comfort in the stance but I have never believed this to be correct. There are many many other sports that focus very closely on stance above comfort and if something is uncomfortable at first does not mean it is incorrect.


Also it is nice to see a thread with discussion and debate about something interesting and ungossip related for a change.

 

[cleary]

Darren does say in the video his "right leg is point towards the cueball". Watching through the video, his foot does seem about 45º though.

 

[Agent 99]

Darren does say in the video his "right leg is point towards the cueball". Watching through the video, his foot does seem about 45º though.

Yeah, this is the problem with videos and books that are not correctly presented.

The Player is standing correctly, but the commentary is giving different instruction causing the confusion...

 

[ronscuba]

Are there any pros or high level pool players using a traditional snooker stance ?

 

[cleary]

Yeah, this is the problem with videos and books that are not correctly presented.

The Player is standing correctly, but the commentary is giving different instruction causing the confusion...

He talks about this while explaining how he is lining up the shot and totally standing up. When he gets down, it seems his foot turns 45 degrees to a comfortable position.

 

[sfleinen]

Are there any pros or high level pool players using a traditional snooker stance ?

In the past? Sure; Steve Davis, Jimmy White, Stephen Hendry (now plays a lot of Chinese 8-ball), Ronnie O'Sullivan, etc. But they've all either retired, or else returned to snooker (e.g. Ronnie O.).

Currently? Tony Drago (although he's been quiet of late) and Stuart Pettman (the only player who broke 100 on the DCC Straight Pool Challenge on the Diamond 10-footers). Also, we can't forget about Allison Fisher, Karen Corr, and Kelly Fisher.

That's about it; most of the snooker players that ventured into pool, went right back to snooker. Probably mostly because there's scant money in pool compared to snooker.

-Sean

 

[Agent 99]

He talks about this while explaining how he is lining up the shot and totally standing up. When he gets down, it seems his foot turns 45 degrees to a comfortable position.

Thanks .. It all makes sense now. He is saying to use your rear foot to align your stance with the shot line before settling in.

Good rolls.

 

[cleary]

Thanks .. It all makes sense now. He is saying to use your rear foot to align your stance with the shot line before settling in.

Good rolls.

Correct. Darren is very good at communicated what he's doing. Better than most top players. Coaches coach and players play, but Darren and Jeremy Jones are fantastic at both. Probably the best.