Reno Open vs Bicycle Club

[Jimmy M.]

I'm wondering why so many of the "big names" skip the Reno tournament at the Sands. I am always told that it is because many of them feel that the entry fee is too low and the prize money isn't that good. However, most every big name pool has to offer showed up at the Bicycle Club for a tournament that had an entry fee that was 3 1/2 times more, higher living expenses for the week, and a 1st place prize that was $2000 LESS than the Reno tournament. Other than ranking points, I can't see any logic behind this.

 

[Rickw]

Could it have something to do with gambling? Seems like a lot of the players that attend the Sands do quite a bit of gambling in the casino. I've never been to the Bicycle Club so I'm just venturing a guess.

 

[wayne]

I'm wondering why so many of the "big names" skip the Reno tournament at the Sands. I am always told that it is because many of them feel that the entry fee is too low and the prize money isn't that good. However, most every big name pool has to offer showed up at the Bicycle Club for a tournament that had an entry fee that was 3 1/2 times more, higher living expenses for the week, and a 1st place prize that was $2000 LESS than the Reno tournament. Other than ranking points, I can't see any logic behind this.

For one thing Reno and the Sands Hotel are kind of depressing and the nearby poolhalls are terrible whereas L.A. has some great action rooms. Also this December Grady had his tournament back east at the same time. The Bicycle Club tournament is more prestigious. However, it still doesn't make complete sense except the marketing might be a little better.

I wonder if the Reno organizers have done anything to go out of their way to get the top players there. I am sure if approached correctly the Hotel would comp any big pool name their room and meals but I don't know if this incentive is offered, if it was it may be enough to get a number of them to show up. They might also liven it up with a Pro ring game toward the end of the tournament which adds a lot of excitement for the fans and the pros can get backers for this which gives them more opportunity to get some extra cash.

It just seems that the Reno tournament is a little bland.

Wayne

 

[Tom In Cincy]

It could also be the fact that the Reno OPEN is Open to all players with the entry fee. ($100)

The Reno tournament had 190+ entries. The Bike Club had 60. But, the Bike Club is a UPA sanctioned event, open to only the UPA members.

IMO the Reno event is the more difficult of the two mentioned. All the great competitors from the west coast and Canada showed up to compete and the UPA pros that did play, had to endure a lot of Hill-Hill matches with little known players. Not all the Pros won those matches. There were some great road players that also showed up from all over the states.

Reno accomodations are very cheap compared to the Bike Club. $19 a day from Sun-Thur and $29 Fri and Sat. Rates were for this tournament.

Bike Club payouts:
1st Corey Deuel $10,000
2nd Danny Basavich $5,000
3rd Gabe Owen $4,000
4th Efren Reyes $3,000
5th/6th Rodney Morris, Mika Immonen $2,400
7th/8th Ralf Souquet, Santos Sambajon $1,850
9th/12th Frankie Hernandez, Mike Davis, Paul Potier, Troy Frank $1,350
13th/16th Francisco Bustamante, Johnny Archer, Tony Robles, Rodolfo Luat $900
17th/24th Charlie Williams, Neil Fujiwara, Bill Ferguson, Danny Kuykendall, Dave Hemmah, Max Eberle, Robb Saez, Charlie Bryant $400

Reno Payouts:
1 $ 12,000 Danny Basavich
2 $ 5,500 Jeremy Jones
3 $ 3,500 Mike Vidas
4 $ 2,450 Ernesto Dominguez
5/6 $ 1,600 Charles Bryant James Ladeira
7/8 $ 1,100 Glenn Atwell Corey Deuel
9/12 $900 George Michaels Tyler Edey Gabe Owen Jose Parica
13/16 $600 Tony Chohan Jeff Abernathy Ismael Paez Edwin Montal
(Reno Open paid 64 places 49-64th got $100


Players that played in both events

 

[X Breaker]

I'm wondering why so many of the "big names" skip the Reno tournament at the Sands. I am always told that it is because many of them feel that the entry fee is too low and the prize money isn't that good. However, most every big name pool has to offer showed up at the Bicycle Club for a tournament that had an entry fee that was 3 1/2 times more, higher living expenses for the week, and a 1st place prize that was $2000 LESS than the Reno tournament. Other than ranking points, I can't see any logic behind this.

I agree that it is weird. May be it is the ban of jump cue in Reno?
Just a wild guess...

Richard

 

[g monster]

I don't think it has anything to do with the action or the jump cues. I think that it's all about the promoters of the UPA and Dragon promotions. And the ESPN cameras I'm sure has a little to do with it.

 

[pooljunkie0082]

open is good

It could also be the fact that the Reno OPEN is Open to all players with the entry fee. ($100)

The Reno tournament had 190+ entries. The Bike Club had 60. But, the Bike Club is a UPA sanctioned event, open to only the UPA members.

i agree that while the reno tournament is great but at the same time a little bland also, as pointed out earlier. but one thing i think is great about reno is that it is open. what better way for new players to come out and try to get noticed. while i love to watch the pro's play, what better way to get a little expierence by playing a pro themself. how to solve this problem i dont know, a quick thought is maybe to move it from reno to somewhere else, but keep the tourn set up the same.

 

[vagabond]

I'm wondering why so many of the "big names" skip the Reno tournament at the Sands. I am always told that it is because many of them feel that the entry fee is too low and the prize money isn't that good. However, most every big name pool has to offer showed up at the Bicycle Club for a tournament that had an entry fee that was 3 1/2 times more, higher living expenses for the week, and a 1st place prize that was $2000 LESS than the Reno tournament. Other than ranking points, I can't see any logic behind this.

Hi Jimmy M,
All the big names did play many times in the past when it was a tour stop of PBTA(pro Billiard tour)/Camel Tour.Once PBTA and Camel became defunct,some big names disappeared.BTW good job at Bicycle.congratulations.Cheers
Vagabond

 

[Kerry Impson]

I agree, part of the problem is those big names getting toppled by unknown players, and many times there are huge cheering sections for the West Coast players. Also, with 190 participants, one has to play a lot more matches to win, and therefore the schedule is more hectic than a tournament like the Bicycle Club - especially on the B side!

 

[Banker Burt]

A pro event is a completely different critter than an open event. Then comparing LA to Reno, there are other legistics to consider.

1. An open event is designed to draw as many players as possible. A Nevada casino sponsor also wants the players to stay as long as possible, ie: Sands and BCA Nationals.

2. A pro event is organized to support its player members. You will notice from the pay-out comparison of these two events, the numbers start dropping much more quickly, from 3rd place on down in the open event.

3. Expenses are critical to a pro, where the 190+ suggests a bunch of locals play and do not think of the expenses as much (it's kind of like a once a year vacation to the non-pro).

4. Cost of flight is drastically different - LAX vs. Reno airport, and you probably won't have to worry about getting snowed-in in LA.

5. As far as gambling goes, the pros knows his odds are much better with his cue in hand, as opposed to the gaming tables at a casino.

There are other elements I am sure I have not touched on. I played in one Reno Open since the PBTA dropped out of sight. The last entry fee I paid was 450.00 in 1996 and there were only 54 players in the event - 75% were pros.
Making it an 100.00 open diluted this number speculating today there might be 25%.

And there is no ESPN coverage, which does make a difference.

Plus, it is happening more and more, but big tournaments are scheduling on top of each other, limiting the financing by sponsors, ie: the 2004 Canadien Open in Calgary.

As a west coast player, I would choose an organized pro event even with a higher entry fee. This is where my game will grow. But there is still not near the kind of money to make this a reasonable business venture.

 

[Jimmy M.]

Hi Jimmy M,
All the big names did play many times in the past when it was a tour stop of PBTA(pro Billiard tour)/Camel Tour.Once PBTA and Camel became defunct,some big names disappeared.BTW good job at Bicycle.congratulations.Cheers
Vagabond

I know they used to play in it. It's just that ever since it became an open with a low entry fee ($100), their participation has dwindled. Some of them still show up now and then but, at least for the last few tournaments now, they don't all seem to show up at the same time. The reason I even brought this subject up to begin with is because I keep hearing that the reason they aren't showing up is because of the low entry fee (which creates a bigger field than they want, I guess), and the prize money that hasn't changed in so long. However, many other tournaments out there are much more expensive to go to and pay LESS than the open in Reno, yet the pro's seem to show up for them in full force. I'm really just questioning the reason(s) that I'm hearing for the lack of participation in Reno.

Oh, by the way, it wasn't the Bicycle I played in. It was the Pechauer tournament at Hard Times the weekend before, but still, thanks!