Reyes vs. Blomdalh videos! 9-ball and 3-cushion!

[iralee]

ask any 3c player about where efren's 3c level is. where's ira when we need him? he'd give you an honest opinion.

Blomdahl's 3-cushion knowledge and ability is incomparable with Efren's. You wouldn't try to compare Stephen Hawking's knowledge of theoretical physics with that of a college physics major. The difference might be that much.

In my opinion, given what I know about both games, Efren would have a lot more to learn about 3-cushion billiards than Torbjorn would have to learn about pool if they were trying to reach each other's respective levels of proficiency. I wonder if there any disagreement about that.

You have to consider that the video is about ten years old. Blomdahl's ability has improved measurably in the last decade. Also, people have said that Efren was closer to his prime then than he is now. I'd like to see a more recent matchup.

 

[jsp]

Blomdahl's 3-cushion knowledge and ability is incomparable with Efren's. You wouldn't try to compare Stephen Hawking's knowledge of theoretical physics with that of a college physics major. The difference might be that much.

I don't think it's much the "ability" difference than it is the "knowledge" difference. But you're right, the knowledge difference probably is that big, considering the depth of knowledge it takes to be a world-class 3C player.

That's why a 17-year old John Morra can be runner up in Turning Stone, or even a then 16-year old Wu can be World Champion. There is only so much "knowledge" one needs to be a very proficient 9-ball player. Ability and (more so) execution is the name of the game in 9-ball.

I'm not a three-cushion player, but 3C seems to be a totally different animal. Have there been any teenage 3C sensations?

 

[Rich93]

A few months ago there was a post on the "greatest shot ever made", an amazing kick shot Efren made in the final game of a tournament. For those who liked that shot, you might appreciate this "kick" shot made in 2006 by Blomdahl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGAre1vdeUo

 

[iralee]

Who's the dork that a while back said that Efren plays 3-c at the amateur level?

Yes Efren did lose the 9ball, but it looked like Blomdahl was getting more open shots than him. I wish I could have seen a few safeties in the 9ball. I would love to see how incredible Blomdahl kicks.

Thanks again Steven!!

It looked to me like Torbjorn was being "friendly" to Efren in the 3-cushion game based on how open he was leaving him every inning. If Blomdahl really needed to keep Efren below a certain figure, he would have arranged to put him in jail everytime he missed (like he does in the 3-c World Cup in tight situations).

On the other hand, it would be impossible for Efren to play a successful safety game against Torbjorn. Efren was smart to shoot an open game and just pray Torbjorn didn't get into the mood of locking him up.

But, it's a very tall order to beat Torbjorn's offensive game. Once he locks onto a table he'll cruise at a 2+ average all day long.

-Ira

 

[iralee]

A few months ago there was a post on the "greatest shot ever made", an amazing kick shot Efren made in the final game of a tournament. For those who liked that shot, you might appreciate this "kick" shot made in 2006 by Blomdahl.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGAre1vdeUo

Nice shot... this was against Colombian champion Miguel Torres (also great player) during the Sang Lee Int'l Open.... I guess the standard mid-table 3-cushion saftey (balls in opposite corners) doesn't work against Blomdahl. Let's all keep that in mind...

Blomdahl has Miguel's number, it seems. The last time they played was in the semi-fianls of a tournament in FL. Blomdahl beat him like 30-3 or something like that...huge runs back to back to back; averaged exactly 4.000 for the last 80 points to win that tournament. Miguel (NY Carom Cafe house pro) incidentally is a better player than Efren. He just won a pro event a few weeks ago with almost a 1.4 average for the entire round robin against a very tough field.

-Ira

 

[TSW]

Blomdahl makes 9-ball look so easy. His cueball control is impeccable, although a couple of times he looked unsure of the best 9-ball position route. I'm a little surprised that he pockets as well as he does. He'd definitely be a world champion level 9-ball player if he chose to.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

In my opinion, given what I know about both games, Efren would have a lot more to learn about 3-cushion billiards than Torbjorn would have to learn about pool if they were trying to reach each other's respective levels of proficiency. I wonder if there any disagreement about that.

You are entitled to your opinion Iralee. but I would rather say that Torbjorn needs much learning about 9-ball and one-pocket than Reyes in 3 cushion. Torbjorn; being a true practitioner of 3 cushion is a legend in that area while Reyes; being a true practitioner of 9-ball and one pocket is also a legend in his own domain. let us not also forget the fact that Reyes was once a practitioner of 3 cushion, therefore he had a good background about that sport, which is an advantage on his side. The point is, both players have their own kingdom in which they rule, and the only way to determine whose got the upperhand is to invade the other's domain and dominate it. We are not talking about exhibition matches coz that won't bring the best out of the two players. Money is always a great motivating force.

 

[TSW]

You are entitled to your opinion Iralee. but I would rather say that Torbjorn needs much learning about 9-ball and one-pocket than Reyes in 3 cushion....

Gotta agree with Ira here. 3C is enormously dependent on knowledge and creativity, followed by one-pocket, and with 9-ball trailing far behind. Comparing the strategy and knowledge of 9-ball to 3C is like comparing checkers to chess.

 

[iralee]

I'm not a three-cushion player, but 3C seems to be a totally different animal. Have there been any teenage 3C sensations?

In 3-cushion you need the knowledge before you can have any ability.

Torbjorn was a teenage sensation 25 years ago - he had Ceulemans to beat - and Ceulemans wasn't a pushover. Daniel Sanchez was playing 1.4 billiards when he was 18 (incredible prodigy) - but he needed more than a decade before he could hang up there with the big boys.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Gotta agree with Ira here. 3C is enormously dependent on knowledge and creativity, followed by one-pocket, and with 9-ball trailing far behind. Comparing the strategy and knowledge of 9-ball to 3C is like comparing checkers to chess.

I would rather not categorize it in that direction. 9-ball and 3C are two different disciplines and with different knowledge and strategies applied on each other. I have seen really good cushion players struggle against full pledged 9-ballers in 9 ball games. they play well so to speak, but not in the level of real contenders. it just means that they may know the basics of the game, but the proficiency in playing it takes time. same as to other practitioners of other pool games when it comes or switching to 3C.

The comparison between 9-ball and 3C is not even close to likeness on how it is played. drawing a comparison to this is simply silly or outrageous so to speak. though there is one game that I know that is close to resembling 9-ball and that is 15-ball rotation. it has almost have all the same rules of 9-ball except that it involves a lot more balls and jumpshots are not allowed which makes the game much more challenging and difficult. Between 9-ball and 15-ball, atleast we can really make an assessment between checkers and chess!

 

[iralee]

You are entitled to your opinion Iralee. but I would rather say that Torbjorn needs much learning about 9-ball and one-pocket than Reyes in 3 cushion.
....
The point is, both players have their own kingdom in which they rule, and the only way to determine whose got the upperhand is to invade the other's domain and dominate it. We are not talking about exhibition matches coz that won't bring the best out of the two players. Money is always a great motivating force.

I think I understand what you are saying. If we talk about game-specific knowledge - relating to moves and strategies - that Torbjorn would need to learn from Efren for games like 9-ball and 1-pocket. Torbjorn would have a lot to learn for sure.

It is impossible to know for sure, but I tend not to think that Torbjorn would need 15 years in order to pick these moves up before he could execute them reliably on his own and hit them with the best. I don't think this is a comparable scenario in the case of Efren learning to play 1.9+ billiards. I strongly suspect if even 15 years (starting from Efren's 1.0 avg as a base) is enough time to get him executing anywhere near that level.

Put another way, let's say that Efren had Torbjorn as his coach to play 3-cushion matchs and Torbjorn had Efren as a coach playing 1-pocket matches. I believe Torbjorn would fair better against a professional field than Efren could in "the other" realm. The number of technical details concerning execution on the countless variety of 3-cushion shots - cumulatively, would create too large of a learning curve for Efren. This is the type of "knowledge" I am referring to.

This is all pretty useless to debate, really - unless we could actually get them to try it out. My opinion is based on my own experience alone, my personal perception of the games, and what I have seen from both players. The two kingdoms are very different.



I should mention that Torbjorn respects Efren's ability very highly - admitting that Efren "hits the object ball" better than anyone in the world (himself included).

-Ira

 

[sde]

In a interview of Torbjorn Blomdahl he says that he plays 9 ball pretty well , but that he prefers 3 cushion because it is the greatest challenge.http://www.caromtv.com/ click website features, freeviews and then blomdahl interview.

Steve

 

[AuntyDan]

Very cool videos, thanks for the links. I'm not much of a 3C aficionado, but I thought that the contrasts in styles was very interesting. It seemed about 80% of Blomdahl's shots were made with precision speed, with the ball just barely reaching the final contact. Reyes by contrast was shooting far more "strength" shots.

I think my favorite moment is at the beginning of the second video with the score 11-10 to Reyes. Blomdahl shoots around the bottom of the table and it looked to me like he'd missed. However as the cue ball slowly rolls uptable look closely and you can see Efren tapping his cue in appreciation. Sure enough the moment it contacts the top rail it throws right into the red ball to score. I'm guessing Efren can see the large amount of spin that must've been on Blomdahl's cue ball to do this from where he's sitting.

 

[StevenPWaldon]

As noted by a few posters, I think the most apparent contrast is Blomdahl's position play. Efren doesn't quite have the knowledge or finesse to manage all three balls to run a lot of points, whereas Blomdahl clearly has a big edge in this department.

While Efren's shot-making skills are impressive, he's almost a "banger" in some aspects. But good nonetheless.

Very cool videos, thanks for the links. I'm not much of a 3C aficionado, but I thought that the contrasts in styles was very interesting. It seemed about 80% of Blomdahl's shots were made with precision speed, with the ball just barely reaching the final contact. Reyes by contrast was shooting far more "strength" shots.

I think my favorite moment is at the beginning of the second video with the score 11-10 to Reyes. Blomdahl shoots around the bottom of the table and it looked to me like he'd missed. However as the cue ball slowly rolls uptable look closely and you can see Efren tapping his cue in appreciation. Sure enough the moment it contacts the top rail it throws right into the red ball to score. I'm guessing Efren can see the large amount of spin that must've been on Blomdahl's cue ball to do this from where he's sitting.

 

[Rich93]

Nobody seems to be saying it, so I will.

Aren't you surprised how well Blomdahl plays 9 ball? It's like he's a leading player on the pro tour. Sure, it's only one set, but I thought his position play and speed control were masterful. This from a guy who only plays 9 ball for a lark, for a diversion. I sure didn't expect it.

 

[TSW]

Aren't you surprised how well Blomdahl plays 9 ball? It's like he's a leading player on the pro tour. Sure, it's only one set, but I thought his position play and speed control were masterful. This from a guy who only plays 9 ball for a lark, for a diversion. I sure didn't expect it.

Yes, definitely. That's why he'd be a top top player if he switched to 9-ball.

 

[StevenPWaldon]

Reminds me a lot of watching Jimmy White or Steve Davis play 9-ball. Some of their patterns are slightly different, but their cue control and potting ability is first-class. I find it informative and interesting to watch styles adapted from other disciplines.

Nobody seems to be saying it, so I will.

Aren't you surprised how well Blomdahl plays 9 ball? It's like he's a leading player on the pro tour. Sure, it's only one set, but I thought his position play and speed control were masterful. This from a guy who only plays 9 ball for a lark, for a diversion. I sure didn't expect it.

 

[gulfportdoc]

I should mention that Torbjorn respects Efren's ability very highly - admitting that Efren "hits the object ball" better than anyone in the world (himself included).

Ira, what do you suppose Torbjorn meant by that statement? Do you think he was referring to hitting the exact spot on the object ball, or was he alluding to Efren's stroke? Thanks~

Doc

 

[John Barton]

Blohmdahl has beaten Oliver Ortmann at least once playing nine ball as well.

The biggest difference for nine ball and 3 cushion is that in nine ball there are hundreds of players worldwide who can run out nine balls consistently. So Torbjorn is likely to lose a set while never getting a chance to play.

In 3c there aren't but a few players worldwide who carry an average close to Tobjorn's.

So while Blohmdahl plays pool at a world class level Efren doesn't play 3c at a world class level.

I say it's even money in nine ball between Reyes and Blohmdahl. And no chance in 3c for Efren.

With Efren coaching, Blohmdahl could spot the world playing one pocket.

 

[cueman]

Let's forget the World here for a second.
Is there anyone born in the USA that plays one pocket better than Efren?
Is there anyone born in the USA that plays 8 ball better than Efren?
Is there anyone born in the USA that plays 9 ball better than Efren?
Is there anyone born in the USA that plays 3 cushion better than Efren?
Is there anyone born in the USA that plays snooker better than Efren?
You might answer yes to some of the above. But I think if you get him to play any human born and living in the USA all those games, longer races and He will win. Probably would hold true with anyone on the planet. Feel free to name your player who is better than Efren from the USA in the above games. Try placing a name next to all five. I would have a hard time putting any name up there except maybe in nine ball and that is kinda iffy.
As far as Blomdahl goes, my son said he heard Johnny Archer say he is a world class 9 ball player. Efren finished the 3 cushion with a 1.0 average and Blomdahl finished with a 1.5 average. Blomdahl also won the 9 ball.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com