Reyes vs. Blomdalh videos! 9-ball and 3-cushion!

[Hail Mary Shot]

And no chance in 3c for Efren.

I don't want to count my money out on this one yet! let us not disregard the learning ability of Reyes. some of us assume prematurely. as some of us gives the benefit of a doubt to Blomdahl's ability to become a world contender if given the chance to play and learn both 9ball and 1P full time, the same must be said of Reyes in 3C. Reyes is not only a fast learner but he is also a prodigy when it comes to any billiards game. what I meant by this, is that he does not only know the fundamentals of a certain game but he also has the capacity to reach a certain proficiency or excellence in playing it in a short span of time, given a chance to play it for a duration that he will be able to master the game, in which period depends upon his capacity to adapt it, but certainly won't take 15 years .

 

[John Barton]

Let's forget the World here for a second.
Is there anyone born in the USA that plays one pocket better than Efren?
Is there anyone born in the USA that plays 8 ball better than Efren?
Is there anyone born in the USA that plays 9 ball better than Efren?
Is there anyone born in the USA that plays 3 cushion better than Efren?
Is there anyone born in the USA that plays snooker better than Efren?
You might answer yes to some of the above. But I think if you get him to play any human born and living in the USA all those games, longer races and He will win. Probably would hold true with anyone on the planet. Feel free to name your player who is better than Efren from the USA in the above games. Try placing a name next to all five. I would have a hard time putting any name up there except maybe in nine ball and that is kinda iffy.
As far as Blomdahl goes, my son said he heard Johnny Archer say he is a world class 9 ball player. Efren finished the 3 cushion with a 1.0 average and Blomdahl finished with a 1.5 average. Blomdahl also won the 9 ball.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

I like the way you capitalized the H in he when referring to Efren.

1p - no
8 ball - no
9 ball - yes , Johnny Archer, Earl Strickland, Buddy Hall.
3c - yes, ask Deno for the name if you can find him.
Snooker - maybe.

And no I ain't betting against Bata.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

I think I understand what you are saying. If we talk about game-specific knowledge - relating to moves and strategies - that Torbjorn would need to learn from Efren for games like 9-ball and 1-pocket. Torbjorn would have a lot to learn for sure.

It is impossible to know for sure, but I tend not to think that Torbjorn would need 15 years in order to pick these moves up before he could execute them reliably on his own and hit them with the best. I don't think this is a comparable scenario in the case of Efren learning to play 1.9+ billiards. I strongly suspect if even 15 years (starting from Efren's 1.0 avg as a base) is enough time to get him executing anywhere near that level.

Put another way, let's say that Efren had Torbjorn as his coach to play 3-cushion matchs and Torbjorn had Efren as a coach playing 1-pocket matches. I believe Torbjorn would fair better against a professional field than Efren could in "the other" realm. The number of technical details concerning execution on the countless variety of 3-cushion shots - cumulatively, would create too large of a learning curve for Efren. This is the type of "knowledge" I am referring to.

This is all pretty useless to debate, really - unless we could actually get them to try it out. My opinion is based on my own experience alone, my personal perception of the games, and what I have seen from both players. The two kingdoms are very different.



I should mention that Torbjorn respects Efren's ability very highly - admitting that Efren "hits the object ball" better than anyone in the world (himself included).

-Ira

Creativity cannot be simply taught Iralee. creativity always relies on the imaginative capacity of a player. that why both players were invited to perform an exhibition match because of their highly regarded creativity in shot-making which is rarely seen or performed by most players. I must say that any player with a great imagination would clearly and certainly learn and master with ease any billiard game that requires it. to say it all, both Efren and Torbjorn are exceptionally creative players.

 

[gopi-1]

Don't forget that Efren doesn't even know a game called 1-pocket exist
before but look who's on top of the 1 hole heap. If we're talking about balls
and sticks, Efren's the man. BTW, he doesn't play 8 ball too before he went to
the US!

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

Don't forget that Efren doesn't even know a game called 1-pocket exist
before but look who's on top of the 1 hole heap. If we're talking about balls
and sticks, Efren's the man. BTW, he doesn't play 8 ball too before he went to
the US!

I know that Efren mastered the one pocket game in a span of only 2 years and was even giving spots to other previous one pocket greats then. but I should rather say that his present 1 pocket skills now are more lethal than ever before compared 20 years ago when he mastered the game. he is so dominant that nobody would like to play him in an even match or without a certain handicap where the odds are against him. this considering that his opponents are young and very talented and not to mention world caliber pros and not just simple amateurs. When it comes to 3C, I have no doubt that he can master it in a short time as well. considering his 2 years (IIC) 3C experience and 18.1 Balkline experience; in which games he played very well. the manner of him mastering 3C is as simple as how he mastered playing chess.

 

[3kushn]

I don't think it's much the "ability" difference than it is the "knowledge" difference. But you're right, the knowledge difference probably is that big, considering the depth of knowledge it takes to be a world-class 3C player.

That's why a 17-year old John Morra can be runner up in Turning Stone, or even a then 16-year old Wu can be World Champion. There is only so much "knowledge" one needs to be a very proficient 9-ball player. Ability and (more so) execution is the name of the game in 9-ball.

I'm not a three-cushion player, but 3C seems to be a totally different animal. Have there been any teenage 3C sensations?

Danny Sanchez. Forget how old he was when I first saw him on tape playing at the Sang Lee International around early 90's.

 

[chrstc]

Hello,
I'm surprised no-one else has mentioned this yet but Torbjorn does play pool regularly in the Dutch Proteamleague which is one of the most competitive in the world (featuring players like Alex Lely, Tom Storm, Imran Majid and a host of Euro Tour-level players). Here are Mr. Blomdahl's stats for the season so far. Solid but unspectacular springs to mind...

http://www.proteamleague.nl/profile.asp?spelerid=180&spelernaam=Torbjörn Blomdahl

Hope this helps,
Chris (Chrstc).

 

[bruin70]

I ,,,,,,,,,,,,, though there is one game that I know that is close to resembling 9-ball and that is 15-ball rotation. it has almost have all the same rules of 9-ball except that it involves a lot more balls and jumpshots are not allowed which makes the game much more challenging and difficult. Between 9-ball and 15-ball, atleast we can really make an assessment between checkers and chess!

i have a better alternative game, and a fun one at that. it's a game i first read about from reading a fels article. in fact he may have thought up the game.

he called it "2 ball" i believe. i play it for kicks on occasion and it incorporates BOTH disciplines.....

played and a regulation 4.5x9, there is a cb and 2 other balls that have their own spot, one at the foot, and the other at the head. opening shot starts with ball in hand and from there all balls are played as they lay. a point is scored ONLY ONE WAY,,,,and that is you can pocket either ob and the cb must hit the second ob. this is the only way to score. no carom and then pocketing,,,it is always pocket a ball first and hit the other ball second. the second ball can be hit in any manner or ways, ie directly or coming off any number of rails. pocketed ob is respotted at it's spot. cb scratches are ball in hand. if the second ob happens to pocket, that is ok because the carom was completed....both ob's are then respotted.

this game combines both pocketing and caroming. equal skills required in both and is the fairest game because neither player should have a decided advantage in a game that neither plays. blomdahl has the carom advantage but efren is the superior shooter. defense would be interesting but i would favor blomdahl there.

it's really a terrific game but difficult and ultimately frustrating for a shmuko like me, but i would LOVE to see both players go at it.

 

[bruin70]

I don't want to count my money out on this one yet! let us not disregard the learning ability of Reyes. some of us assume prematurely..

i agree with john's statement, yet i feel efren is the best cueist in the world. let's at least say efren chose his discipline, and blomdahl his.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

i have a better alternative game, and a fun one at that. it's a game i first read about from reading a fels article. in fact he may have thought up the game.

he called it "2 ball" i believe. i play it for kicks on occasion and it incorporates BOTH disciplines.....

played and a regulation 4.5x9, there is a cb and 2 other balls that have their own spot, one at the foot, and the other at the head. opening shot starts with ball in hand and from there all balls are played as they lay. a point is scored ONLY ONE WAY,,,,and that is you can pocket either ob and the cb must hit the second ob. this is the only way to score. no carom and then pocketing,,,it is always pocket a ball first and hit the other ball second. the second ball can be hit in any manner or ways, ie directly or coming off any number of rails. pocketed ob is respotted at it's spot. cb scratches are ball in hand. if the second ob happens to pocket, that is ok because the carom was completed....both ob's are then respotted.

this game combines both pocketing and caroming. equal skills required in both and is the fairest game because neither player should have a decided advantage in a game that neither plays. blomdahl has the carom advantage but efren is the superior shooter. defense would be interesting but i would favor blomdahl there.

it's really a terrific game but difficult and ultimately frustrating for a shmuko like me, but i would LOVE to see both players go at it.

That is a very nice alternative. but what I was referring in that particular post is that someone compared 9ball to 3C while there is no clear similarity to both games. however, the 2-ball game that you are mentioning is worth the similarity to 9-ball considering there is some pocketing involved.

Further However, the game that you had just mentioned is not new to me. it's not that it only involves 3 balls but 9 balls. I had this colleague of mine who knew a particular someone (I forgot his name) that has this habit or caroming/kicking balls after pocketing an OB in every turn without leaving himself getting hooked. I would say that this person has a tremendous amount of cueball control to execute such shots and would likely have us a run for our money.

 

[gopi-1]

this game combines both pocketing and caroming. equal skills required in both and is the fairest game because neither player should have a decided advantage in a game that neither plays. blomdahl has the carom advantage but efren is the superior shooter. defense would be interesting but i would favor blomdahl there.

You'll be in for a big surprise coz Efren grew up playing Rotation were the OB
are usually spotted to that spot you said and the CB behind the kitchen.
Pocketing in that spot is like shooting 5 foot free throws for him and on top
of that, he has to maneuver his CB deftly against the other 14 balls to play
position. Hitting the other ball will be a piece of cake for Effie.

Blomdahl's 3C knowledge will be put to waste, specially with 6 sandtraps,
4 in the corner and 2 on the side. He will be threading unfamiliar grounds.

 

[bruin70]

it's not that it only involves 3 balls but 9 balls. I had this colleague of mine who knew a particular someone (I forgot his name) that has this habit or caroming/kicking balls after pocketing an OB in every turn without leaving himself getting hooked. I would say that this person has a tremendous amount of cueball control to execute such shots and would likely have us a run for our money.

well, in that game you refer to, the shots are all shorter since the nine balls close the gap. there are some really diifficult shots that come up in 2-ball. try it for thr frick of it. it's really interesting what one has to deal with. i played with ginky only once,,,ages ago for about an hour. his high was 3 pts in a row. he crushed me like a grape of course.

 

[bruin70]

You'll be in for a big surprise coz Efren grew up playing Rotation were the OB
are usually spotted to that spot you said and the CB behind the kitchen.
Pocketing in that spot is like shooting 5 foot free throws for him and on top
of that, he has to maneuver his CB deftly against the other 14 balls to play
position. Hitting the other ball will be a piece of cake for Effie.

Blomdahl's 3C knowledge will be put to waste, specially with 6 sandtraps,
4 in the corner and 2 on the side. He will be threading unfamiliar grounds.

it's the only game i can think. rotation is both similiar and not, because there are some quite difficult shots involved when your choice of balls is only one of two, where one might be extremely difficult and to get to the other almost impossible. the clever cuesist would have to know where to carom the second ob so he can create additional, easier pts.''wish i had the cash to host such an exhibition.

the difficulty of course, is finding two such players with strong skills in the other discipline...finding a pool player with balls on positioning(manolo might be a good candidate) might actually be easier than finding a 3c player who pockets equally well.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

I quite agree with GOPI on this one. even though Torbjorn is a great 3C player, his biggest obstacles here are the sandtraps and CB limitation. I must say that these are clear handicaps to him since his shot options have become limited. and his pocketing, banking and safety capability will be put to a real test in this kind of game.

Bruin, may I ask what other fouls are involved in that 2-ball game? do you need to atleast hit a ball to be considered fair or balls are in play ?or is it just the scratch? I believe there is also a safety involved in this kind of game but not the kind of safety that is intentionally stupid or refusing to play and act on a particular situation.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

well, in that game you refer to, the shots are all shorter since the nine balls close the gap. there are some really diifficult shots that come up in 2-ball. try it for thr frick of it. it's really interesting what one has to deal with. i played with ginky only once,,,ages ago for about an hour. his high was 3 pts in a row. he crushed me like a grape of course.

I forgot to add something. there were times that the OB that he caromed is the next one in line for pocketing and the next caromed balled is the next to be pocketed ! kinda insane so to speak ! it's like he was toying around with the balls or tipping them near the hole.

I know how interesting it is because of the degree of difficulty and amount of skill needed inorder to perform a successful attempt.

 

[gulfportdoc]

Is there anyone born in the USA that plays 3 cushion better than Efren?

Bob, Ira, or some of the other players could list the names, but I'm sure there are dozens of U.S. 3C players whose games are superior to Efren's. As evidenced on the old clip, Efren plays a very good game of 3C shot-making, but he couldn't be considered champion quality-- even in this country.

It occurred to me later after watching the clip that Torbjorn did not play to leave Efren safe during their contest. Oftentimes Efren was left to start his innings with what 3C players might consider "hangers".

Efren has the talent and the mentality to excel at any cuesports game, but he'd have a long way to go to be considered champion quality at 3C.

Doc

 

[viva]

what a fantastic video! thank you very much! hats off to the uploader and the messenger!

Those videos reminded me of the Color of Money matches back in 1996. I myself have not seen much of efren before 1999 but in that video he looks as if he plays a similar game to the COM96 match. Looks like he played at a faster pace back then too. His strioke seems to have tamed down a bit these days. His stroke in the Blomdahl/reyes videos and the COM96 match resemble a less exaggerated Bustamante style stroke, nowadays efrens stroke seems more ironed out (maybe due to tighter tournament pockets?), but still very effective, Very interesting and very PRETTY to watch!

What a gifted player blomdahl is, this is the first time i have seen him play either discipline! his knowledge in 3c is phenomenal,he hits with just absolute perfect speed and accuracy. He also makes 9ball look like a walk in the park! truly a gifted player. You can tell he is a 3c player though by the way he sights the cue ball, he keeps his head up on all his shots and his chin doesnt go anywhere near his cue when he is shooting, yet he shoots with such deadly accuracy. what a great player.

Reyes ability on the pocketless table was very good but not quite up to Blomdahls speed, but then again you never know when it comes to Reyes! he is truly a master cueman and he seems to always have tricks up his sleeve, maybe if he practiced for a while? you just never know with Reyes.

Didnt surprise me to see Blomdahl get the better of Reyes in the 9ball, he plays 9 ball well enough to keep anyone at the chair. It was a very short race though and i believe that in a longer race efren would have ended with his nose in front.

I would love see earlier videos of efren, seems that he had a more aggressive all round game when he was younger compared to the reyes of today.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

what a fantastic video! thank you very much! hats off to the uploader and the messenger!

Those videos reminded me of the Color of Money matches back in 1996. I myself have not seen much of efren before 1999 but in that video he looks as if he plays a similar game to the COM96 match. Looks like he played at a faster pace back then too. His strioke seems to have tamed down a bit these days. His stroke in the Blomdahl/reyes videos and the COM96 match resemble a less exaggerated Bustamante style stroke, nowadays efrens stroke seems more ironed out (maybe due to tighter tournament pockets?), but still very effective, Very interesting and very PRETTY to watch!

What a gifted player blomdahl is, this is the first time i have seen him play either discipline! his knowledge in 3c is phenomenal,he hits with just absolute perfect speed and accuracy. He also makes 9ball look like a walk in the park! truly a gifted player. You can tell he is a 3c player though by the way he sights the cue ball, he keeps his head up on all his shots and his chin doesnt go anywhere near his cue when he is shooting, yet he shoots with such deadly accuracy. what a great player.

Reyes ability on the pocketless table was very good but not quite up to Blomdahls speed, but then again you never know when it comes to Reyes! he is truly a master cueman and he seems to always have tricks up his sleeve, maybe if he practiced for a while? you just never know with Reyes.

Didnt surprise me to see Blomdahl get the better of Reyes in the 9ball, he plays 9 ball well enough to keep anyone at the chair. It was a very short race though and i believe that in a longer race efren would have ended with his nose in front.

I would love see earlier videos of efren, seems that he had a more aggressive all round game when he was younger compared to the reyes of today.

Nope, this match is played differently compared to the COM. this was an exhibition match and anything goes so to speak, the COM however, stays true to it's match name. I had watched the COM a decade ago, I'd say it was the best show of 9-ball skills that I've ever seen from both the top two players during that time. every shot was taken seriously and was surprised to see all the possible assortment of shots in 9-ball were performed. from merciless safeties to aggressive kicks and pocketing. not to mention momentum breaks. truly a classic !

 

[Rich93]

Hello,
I'm surprised no-one else has mentioned this yet but Torbjorn does play pool regularly in the Dutch Proteamleague which is one of the most competitive in the world (featuring players like Alex Lely, Tom Storm, Imran Majid and a host of Euro Tour-level players). Here are Mr. Blomdahl's stats for the season so far. Solid but unspectacular springs to mind...

http://www.proteamleague.nl/profile.asp?spelerid=180&spelernaam=Torbjörn Blomdahl

Hope this helps,
Chris (Chrstc).

You dare present us with facts?? Don't you realize we'd much rather speculate?

Seriously, maybe I gushed a little too much in prior posts about Torbjorn's 9 ball ability. The tape is edited. But it still amazes me how well he can play, given how different his game is from pool. I know that in the past there have been "crossovers" like Harold Worst, but very few, and pool seems to be something that Torbjorn just does for a fun night out. I have no doubt that Efren would win in any kind of serious 9 ball competition.

One interesting thing - Torbjorn's "billiard style" didn't seem to hurt him much. By billiard style I mean using a shorty-type billiard cue with a "billiard" taper, breaking with his playing cue, not getting very low over the ball, etc.

Anyway, thanks for posting the facts.

 

[cuetable]

Thanks for the video link

I Beilieve that videos were from an exhibition at 1995 Tokyo 9Ball. There was a huge prize (10k ?) for the winner. Maybe someone can verify that?

7 years later they meet again and Blomdahl won again. Here is a Japanese page for the event.

http://www.billiardwave.com/tv/2002/bangumi/96index.html

I am an Efren fan too and would not like to hear his lost at 9 ball

. However, it was only one game of race to 9 and Blomdahl can actually play a little pool.

Here is a little story about Blomdahl and pool

At Sang Lee International last year, I had the chance and pleasure to watch Blomdahl playing our very own Bob Jewett some friendly social games for 4 hours

At the frist they played 200 pt straight pool. Bob was shooting well in the beginning and then Torbjorn got in the groove. The game ended 200-132 with a run of 54 by Torbjorn.

Then they switched to one pocket... Torbjorn had a 8 and out. Bob had an awesome break and run. The score ended 5-4. (Note: Bob was playing and coaching every basic rules and moves at the same time. )

At the end I set up 2 shots for Torbjorn to try. He hung the ball by the pocket on both 2nd tries. (It was really late so we didn't continue trying)

CueTable Layouts: (2 pages included in each)

Shot 1 (bank shot with transferred English, both balls 1 ball away from rail)

Shot 2 (a jump bank, the CB went staight up in the air as the OB passed)

I will try plot out some of Efren's 3C Shots

and Blomdahl's 9B Shots

from the videos in a few days. So we can have an even more interesting conversation