rhythm

[Tin Man]

There seems to be three types of players:

1. Rhythm players. These players tend to play quickly no matter how difficult the table they are faced with is. They can use their momentum to carry them through tough racks, and eliminate much wasted energy when facing easier layouts. Some may say, however, that they mess up routine outs due to rushing. (Earl, CJ Wiley, etc.)

2. Deliberate players. These players play each shot as an individual game, and never establish a rhythm. Due to this approach, they are rarely out of line and seldom make unforced errors. Some may say, however, that they make the game tougher than it needs to be, and are losing the advantage of playing with tempo. (Varner, Archer, etc.)

3. Players that change gears. Some players play more quickly when the table is open and straight forward, but slow down and take a little extra time when needed. Some may say that this changing pace leads to inconsistancy, as they don't have an established "all of the time" speed. (Alex, Mika, etc.)

Obviously, there are top players with all types of styles. In the end, is there one that you readers believe will produce the highest CONSISTENT level of play? Why? Is one level of play better suited for gambling, another for tournaments? What about different game types?

 

[jrmuckadoo]

deliberate play

Tin Man,
"Rythem" play seems to be best suited for gambers. When gambling if you mess up a routine shot that costs you a game or set you can just laugh it off and fire another barrel.
"deliberate" play seems best suited for tournament players where one false move could cost you a trip to the one loss side or maybe out of the tournament.
"Switch it up play" has been the toughest for me personally to utilize. It seems that it causes a bit of an identity crisis that messes with my pre-shot routine and overall comfort that come from a repeatable gameplan/approach.
With the "switch it up" approach it causes problems for me when things don't go well. In dealing with post performance review I am left wondering-did I shoot too fast on that ball I missed? Did I shoot too slow and not allow myself to "get rolling"
(The duality of that question leaves me flumuxed-despite my mercurial talent!...what's that??)
But, as you stated, lot's of great players play at all different paces.
As a side note I persnally like betting on the deliberate "grinder" types, they seem to cherish/welcome the pressure where as the rythem players seem like they want to hurry up and get it over with.
As a secondary side note, I also like matching up with the "rythem" players because my experience with them has shown me that they are looking to run people over and when they have to "work" to get it it's easier for them to find an excuse to lose (i.e. I shot too fast, he shot too slow, I couldn't get a "rythem", I should run this guy over, etc.)
The "I should run this guy over" attitude is common among "rythem" players where as a deliberate player is grinding for everything he/she gets-they only know that they "ran somebody over" when the match is over and they look back at the match.
Of course this is just my opinion. Or we could solve this debate by playing some cheap..say $1000 a set 10 ball on tripple shimmed Diamonds, break from the box, with slow nap cloth.


"[I dogged it...I tried to lay it down with the cougar facing three o'clock, the cougar landed at four thirty...what a mut"

muck[/I]

 

[Tin Man]

Thanks for the reply, muck.

I agree with you that the rhythm play is best suited for gambling.

I personally do allow my pace to vary at the table. At the beginning of the rack, I generally take a little extra time to formulate a plan. When the shots are delicate and difficult I slow it down. When they are very routine I speed up SLIGHTLY. My rhythm continues only as long as I am confident that I will make everything I shoot at. In the unlikely event that I am confronted with a shot I feel that I might miss, I will slow down my pace and give it the attention that it deserves.

I don't believe that there is much of a disadvantage to this variance. When I have tried to forbid myself from shooting more quickly when the balls are open I get frustrated (like being stuck behind someone very slow in the supermarket frozen food aisle when you just want to grab a big box of eggos). If I know that I can knock the last few balls in easily, I just want to go ahead and do it. If I force myself to line up the shot 10 times my mind just starts to wander. For me that has been more of a challenge than allowing my pace to vary.

I think that the key is to make sure that you are ready to pull the trigger before you shoot each shot. If you happen to be ready quick enough for a series of shots that a rhythm appears to have been established, fine. But don't try to shoot before your ready just to keep the rhythm going, or to try to send the message `I am so good I don't need to try'. The message that usually gets sent is `I am an insecure nit that needs to act like this run out is easy for me in an effort to convince myself and onlookers that I have enough talent to be worthy of respect and adulation'. On the other hand, I have seen players that go through great lengths taking time to try to send the same methods.

Last of all, different games, different paces. I definately have a bit more rhythm playing straight pool, none at all playing one hole.

What do you think, AZers. If you feel you are ready to shoot a routine couple of shots after grinding through a tough rack, is it ok to just shoot them in, or should you slow roll your opponents and pick lint, just to maintain a deliberate pace???

(Oh, and I'll try you some muck, but I've heard how you play. I need at least the 7. Give me a fair game and you can tell all of your nitty grinder friends that they can bet as much as they want. As long as my scotch doubles partner can coach me........)

 

[jrmuckadoo]

all alike

Tin man,
you rythem players are all alike.
Faster, faster, faster, me, me, me!
"Get out of "MY" way so "I" can get "MY" Egoos!"
You might as well say "look at how smart and good I am at buying eggos. How can it take someone so long to buy eggos, it's so easy for me I must be a world class eggo buyer."
But then you get home and realize you bought generic and you start beating yourself up about how you should of maybe taken your time and it was the guy in front of you taking so long that it messed you up and maybe you should just stop buying eggos all together if this is the way
it's always going to go.
Maybe the rythem player lacks the real confidence it takes to handle the adversity that come from dogging it (everybody dogs it), so they put out a false bravado that makes up for the inner insecurity. This "it's easy for me" front also alows them the added benefit of the "I shot it a little quick" excuse.
And maybe....
The deliberate player understands how tough the game is when the pressure is squeezing your head like a lemon. That even the most inocuos shots can jump up and tear your heart out. It's respect for how tough the game is and a desire to face "dogging it" and win that inner battle.
To me winning that inner battle isn't always coming through in the clutch either. Sometimes it's more about handling the defeat with ownership, class, and resiliance.
I want to experince and soak in ALL aspects of life-not just the good ones. That little line at the frozen food section gives me a chance to stop and smell the frozen broccoli.
And "slow rolling" is "YOUR" interpretation. Just more of the "people are doing to me" a.k.a victim/sefl centered position.

Pick lint! that's the greatest!!

O.k you got the seven but I get three to one on the money, the break, ball in hand, no shot clock, and six weeks to practice.
muck

 

[Tin Man]

muck, I've been thinking. I have seen you play, and I agree that you are a deliberate (but not excessively slow) player. I think that you play at a pace that is perfect for your game, and wouldn't dream of telling you to switch it up. You do take a little extra time with extremely difficult/important shots compared to the time you spend on a routine stop shot. Therefore, I know that your pace does vary a bit. When faced with a simple four ball run out, you also develope a rhythm, just a slower rhythm with more safeguards built in than most fast players. It is similar to Ralph's pace- slow and steady.

I don't understand how rhythm has to mean fast, or has to mean insecure. Can't it be just the pace that feels most natural to play at? If there is a reason to slow down (tough decision, aiming a kick, distraction, whatever) then you should be able to slow down without being afraid of "losing your momentum" and not being able to start again. I just don't think that there is an advantage of forcing yourself to shoot slower than you feel necessary.

Obviously, you do run tables. That means at some point, you shoot the balls. Do you think that if you spent an extra 15 minutes between shots that your performance would improve? Probably not. You can put unneccessary pressure on yourself, and allow the analytical part of your brain too much time to interfere. If someone like that accused you of being insecure or afraid of experiencing the moment, you might feel a little defensive. After all, that may just be how they feel when they have attempted to play at your pace. For you, it may be a similar experience to the one they enjoy, and they are just misinterperating it by comparing it to their comfort levels.

I believe that everybody has a pace that they are at ease with. If it is a little faster or slower than someone elses, no problem. And as long as they are going through a preshot routine, and are willing to break from their pace as needed, there is no reason why they can't excel.

By the way- was that you at the grocery store? From now on, I'm using simon delivers...............

 

[jrmuckadoo]

ok you're right...maybe

Tin,
We pretty much agree. When I say "rythem" player I'm talking about guys that run around the table and act like firing in balls with (large) area shape shots is the nuts and anyone that looks at a shot for more than five seconds is trying to shark them and can't play at all.
These players are more often than not bullies (see Earl) and I can't stand that type of attitude and disrespect toward fellow competitors. It's also my humble opinion that Earl's level of play is the exception not the rule for the fast playing bully types-maybe that's why this type of player is more common in the mid to higher level amature players than it is in the pros.
In general you're right people play at all different paces and to me that's just fine. I actually don't care how slow a player plays (maybe that's because I lean toward the grinder side of pace) and I don't care how fast a guy plays (as long as hes not going to try to bully and act like it's some how my fault that he dogged a slight cut in the corner that litterally everybody in the joint before he shot it said to the guy next to them "this is a shot that can be missed")
Like I said, I just happen to love to see my opponents run around the table. No matter how fast they run they can't out run the dog!

If I ever see you in the frozen food isle...you got the wild pizza rolls and the breaks for life!
muck

 

[Tin Man]

Tin,
We pretty much agree. When I say "rythem" player I'm talking about guys that run around the table and act like firing in balls with (large) area shape shots is the nuts and anyone that looks at a shot for more than five seconds is trying to shark them and can't play at all.
These players are more often than not bullies (see Earl) and I can't stand that type of attitude and disrespect toward fellow competitors. It's also my humble opinion that Earl's level of play is the exception not the rule for the fast playing bully types-maybe that's why this type of player is more common in the mid to higher level amature players than it is in the pros.
In general you're right people play at all different paces and to me that's just fine. I actually don't care how slow a player plays (maybe that's because I lean toward the grinder side of pace) and I don't care how fast a guy plays (as long as hes not going to try to bully and act like it's some how my fault that he dogged a slight cut in the corner that litterally everybody in the joint before he shot it said to the guy next to them "this is a shot that can be missed")
Like I said, I just happen to love to see my opponents run around the table. No matter how fast they run they can't out run the dog!

If I ever see you in the frozen food isle...you got the wild pizza rolls and the breaks for life!
muck

Ohhhhhh, you are referring to the players that I call "prancers"! I completely agree.

And if you try giving me that spot I'll beat you so bad you'll never be able to face the frozen food section again. If you need to get to the back of the store you'll just have to wheel you're left pulling cart all of the way through the pet section. Might as well pick up some dog treats for the prancers while you're there..........