Lol, what was the original starting post of this thread? Boy has it gone through a long and gruelling debate!
Ronnie O'Sullivan to play pool this year
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Fred Agnir
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What were they playing then?pinkisntwell said:Well, so they weren't actually playing snooker
It seems Efren beat Jimmy White and (allegedly) Ronnie O' Sullivan for the grand sum of 100 poundsin a race to 3
How does this relate?
I don't think anyone would question that they could. All we can do is report facts or speculate. The facts are that they weren't playing for free. One can guess all they want about whether Jimmy or Ronnie's heart was in it for 100 quid, but that's just guess. They played for something, as if playing for pride wasn't enough. And they played snooker on a snooker table. Are we to now believe that snooker players can't play snooker unless the tables are to their liking or the sets aren't to their liking??? Surely that's not what you are implying.
If Efren is running centuries, why didn't Jimmy and Ronnie run centuries? I'm sure they could have, but is there something there that says that Efren would stop running centuries so that Jimmy and Ronnie could have there turn? I still don't understand the conclusions based on what happened.
Fred
They were playing something other than snooker, something that had a faint resemblance with it. In VP3 I can get a much better simulation of snooker than that!
But anyway, I think that your claim that Efren can beat (or play somewhere near the level of) the snooker pros is nonsense. If he could do that he would be playing in the pro snooker tour making ten times the money he makes now. That's the truth, face it Fred.
The fact that he won a couple(?) of races to 3 for a small bet playing on huge pockets against Jimmy and Ronnie(?) says nothing. Nothing at all and you should know it.
But anyway, I think that your claim that Efren can beat (or play somewhere near the level of) the snooker pros is nonsense. If he could do that he would be playing in the pro snooker tour making ten times the money he makes now. That's the truth, face it Fred.
The fact that he won a couple(?) of races to 3 for a small bet playing on huge pockets against Jimmy and Ronnie(?) says nothing. Nothing at all and you should know it.
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If the table was as Daryl said, then I am sure it would be fairly easy to get a century, if Efren did get 2/3 centuries, probably mean't Ronnie or Jimmy didn't get to the table lol.
You cannot judge Efren's full ability at Snooker from this really, probably will never be able to either as I doubt he would ever try the Snooker Tour.
You cannot judge Efren's full ability at Snooker from this really, probably will never be able to either as I doubt he would ever try the Snooker Tour.
Buckster
I am waiting for Ronnie O to come to the Philippines and drill Efren over 5 sets of rotation for P10k (app 100 English pounds) and for Buckster and company to say, "Oh, you shouldn't make too much of it, Efren was just being a gracious host. Besides, that's not a measure of their true skills".
I am waiting for Ronnie O to come to the Philippines and drill Efren over 5 sets of rotation for P10k (app 100 English pounds) and for Buckster and company to say, "Oh, you shouldn't make too much of it, Efren was just being a gracious host. Besides, that's not a measure of their true skills".
shortshooter
Registered
I'm tired of people saying "snooker players" are the best.
This makes it sound as if any kid played snooker for a while is forever superior to some pool kid who hasn't.
Even if you go along with this "BS" then you should be saying "TOP WORLD CLASS SNOOKER PLAYERS"
There are squillions of average snooker players in the world!
Any snooker player outside of the top 16 will never make it to the top 16 in pro pool either.
JMO.
This makes it sound as if any kid played snooker for a while is forever superior to some pool kid who hasn't.
Even if you go along with this "BS" then you should be saying "TOP WORLD CLASS SNOOKER PLAYERS"
There are squillions of average snooker players in the world!
Any snooker player outside of the top 16 will never make it to the top 16 in pro pool either.
JMO.
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Fred Agnir
Guest
What do I have to face? Conjecture? All I know is that they played, and Efren won. That tells me that he can compete. What's so difficult to understand?pinkisntwell said:
How does beating them say nothing? If it were the other way around, and Jimmy and Ronnie beat Efren, would it still have meant nothing?
Fred
Of course Efren would kick Ronnie at rotation, there are so many things being discussed in this thread it is madness!
As someone said, in my opinion, a snooker player has a better chance at pool than a pool player does at snooker. I am trying to stay kinda unbias, of course I see snooker a lot more and therefore would favour the players playing 9-ball, 8-ball, but rotation and straight pool is another matter, those disciplines certainly require a lot more skill than just potting balls, and these are the games where the pool players would wipe over the snooker guys.
As someone said, in my opinion, a snooker player has a better chance at pool than a pool player does at snooker. I am trying to stay kinda unbias, of course I see snooker a lot more and therefore would favour the players playing 9-ball, 8-ball, but rotation and straight pool is another matter, those disciplines certainly require a lot more skill than just potting balls, and these are the games where the pool players would wipe over the snooker guys.
I really wouldn't read too much into this Efren thing, yes, I am sure he is a capable snooker player, but until he competes in matchplay conditions then I wouldn't say he will be able to live with pro snooker players.
Same as if Ronnie scored a 5 set to nothing win over Mike Sigel or someone in a club with a suspect table, I wouldn't judge Ronnie at the game until he played in a tournament or under proper conditions.
Same as if Ronnie scored a 5 set to nothing win over Mike Sigel or someone in a club with a suspect table, I wouldn't judge Ronnie at the game until he played in a tournament or under proper conditions.
Fred Agnir said:
You mean like the 14-year-olds that beat Mizerak and Rempe?
Like Allison Fisher and Karen Corr beating everyone?
And to answer your question, no it would mean nothing if it was a simple race to 3 on huge pockets.
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Fred Agnir
Guest
Buckster_uk said:
I dont mind addressing this, because as the circle goes, this again is the meat of the discussion. And again, I will ask, given the Darryl Peach interview and report, is your opinion still the same as before the report?
If the table was "easier," such that everyone could have gotten multiple centuries, then this actually should have favored the snooker players in the same way as going to a pool table is easier for a snooker player to adapt, by your opinion above right?
Efren had to adapt from pool to a more difficult snooker table (because the snooker table should have been bigger and tougher pocketed than a pool table that he's used to). Based on the Peach interview, which one adapted easier to the new table conditions? Snooker guys to an easier potting table, or pool guy to a tougher potting table? Didn't the question get answered, or at the very least, doesn't it put a big question mark on your opinion that a snooker player will adapt to pool quicker than a pool player to snooker?
Are there other variables or arguments that I'm missing? Did I cover every snooker point of view?
Fred
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Fred Agnir
Guest
pinkisntwell said:
Then if Ronnie does well at the 8-ball tournament, it means nothing??? I guaranatee it'll be short races and huge pockets.
Fred <~~~ hopes it means something to Ronnie
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Fred Agnir
Guest
Buckster_uk said:
By this reasoning, none of Drago's accomplishments have merit, as those WPC pockets were huge. Some of the biggest I"ve ever seen on TV. EVen bigger than the WPBA!!
But, I'm not saying that, since I think highly of Drago's accomplishments. IMO, the only thing that matters is playing and results. Both players play the same table conditions. If they agree to a short race, so be it. If it's on a 7' bar table, an 8' home table, an antique 10' table, or a tricked out snooker/golf table, the game is the game, and the results are the results. The win is a win, and we'd all be able to say that Ronnie could certainly compete with Sigel.
Fred
Fred Agnir said:
Actually, it will be an IPT tournament. Look here for some of their rules.
...A series of other rules are put into effect such as no jump cues, no breaking from the side rail, winner breaks, long races, round robins, and in the final championship match of each tournament the format will be race to 9 per set, best two of three sets.
I believe it's quite different from what you "guarantee".
So if he does well it will truly be a good indication of what a snooker pro can achieve playing US 8balll.
Fred Agnir said:
What are you talking about? What if they played with their hands? Or the butts of their cues? Or if they shot 5-rail banks only?
shortshooter
Registered
pinkisntwell said:
No! not "a" snooker pro?
The best in the world you mean!
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Fred Agnir
Guest
pinkisntwell said:
It's going over your head, isn't it? For every reason you give, there is an equal reason as to why your reason doesn't make sense. So instead, you've resorted to mocking.
Why don't you list all the reasons why you believe a snooker player will adapt to pool quicker than a pool player will adapt to snooker. You'll see that each "reason" has already been shown to be false on this thread. Much of it is by your (yes you Pink) own words.
Fred
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Fred Agnir
Guest
shortshooter said:
I like you already. You actually understand the argument and the slippery slopes.
Fred
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Fred Agnir
Guest
pinkisntwell said:
Okay, no short races. I stand corrected.
So, now that they are going to play different rules than recognized rules, is this 8-ball, IYO, or is it Virtual 8-ball? That's your argument, afterall. It sounds silly now, doesn't it, you trying to equate virtual pool with the Efren/White/O'Sullivan report? You should be flogged for such mockery.
Fred
The only way to settle this argument is to ask Ronnie, Jimmy or Efren exactly what happened when they played!
I for one wouldn't think Efren could hit a century on a standard snooker table with adequate pocket sizes and correctly cut pockets, just my opinion.
Unless I hear what happened from the horse's mouth, I take what Daryl said with a pinch of salt, seeing as he was not there through out.
Also, you don't know if Ronnie or Jimmy hit centuries, I doubt this would be noted at all seeing as they hit them day in day out, now, Efren hitting one certainly would be something to say.
I for one wouldn't think Efren could hit a century on a standard snooker table with adequate pocket sizes and correctly cut pockets, just my opinion.
Unless I hear what happened from the horse's mouth, I take what Daryl said with a pinch of salt, seeing as he was not there through out.
Also, you don't know if Ronnie or Jimmy hit centuries, I doubt this would be noted at all seeing as they hit them day in day out, now, Efren hitting one certainly would be something to say.