Room for 9 footer

A

amicenheimer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good morning AZ land,

I couldn't think of a better place to ask a construction related question than right here. So, here it goes! Just got the keys to my new house and clearly that means it is time for a Diamond 9 footer. With that being said, as most basements have, I have 4 support poles holding up the house. The basement is huge, I just worry that a couple of these posts may be constricting. Is it possible to safely move a couple of these support poles a couple of feet further away from each other, allowing ample room for the table? The posts are screwed to the concrete and nailed to the joists above.

Thanks!!
 
You need an architect, not a pool player. It's like asking the AZ membership "which wire do I cut to disarm the nuclear device?"
 
I certainly am going to get professional advice before any such actions occur. Just curious for the time being if it is even something that is possible.
 
Making room...

I'm no architect. But, you'll probably be looking at removing the posts and having a steel I beam installed. Which, could be a pretty big job, depending on how much room you have to get the beam in place...

Good luck!!! :grin-square:
 
You don't say but I am assuming that you already have an "I" beam running the length of the house and the supports are placed at intervals under that beam.

I had a similar situation in my place. My father was one of those guys who knew everyone so he asked some engineering savvy guy what we had to do to stiffen up the "I" beam enough to be able to remove the pole.

The solution for my place was 1/4" plate, 8 feet long on each side of the "I" beam. In essence we made a box out of the beam. The 8 foot was not centered over the pole but was split 5' & 3' and that was reversed on the other side of the beam.

That was done shortly after I moved into the house, about 25 years ago. Just this year I fixed up my basement to accept the table I had at my mother's house for oh those many years. It is a 9' Brunswick Madison made in the early 1900's.

Anyway, a few months ago I removed the pole from underneath the beam. The span between the remaining poles was over 20 feet (23 if I remember correctly). Well when I started to back off the screw jack at the top of the pole the house made some creaking noises (made me wonder if I was crazy and making a big mistake).

Turned out the beam sagged about 5mm (that is less than 1/4", 6.35mm = 1/4"). 5mm over 23 feet....I think that is pretty good, my dad's friend did his calculating well.

Had the table moved and set-up exactly 1 week ago today.

So, from my experience I would give you a big "go ahead" as long as you get someone to spec the right reinforcing. Also my father was a construction Boilermaker so the man knew how to weld ! You don't want some hack who "knows how to weld" do the job for you either. Get a professional, certified welder to attach the plate.
 
Amazing info, Old-Duckman! I really appreciate it! I bet you didn't know what to think when you heard that cracking noise! haha:)


Thanks!
 
Yes it can be done using a laminated beam or steel I beam. Essentially what you do is double up 2x4s and place then at each interval as supports where there is a lally column supporting the beam. Slide out the lally columns

You run your laminated beam or I beam, right next to your current support beam. You may have to notch the rafters to get your new beam in. Then depending on your span you may have to modify you lally columns to support the new beam.

Check out youtube to see how it is done. But like others have said you need a Pro to install it properly and a structural engineer to sign off and make sure the new carry beam structurally sufficient.
 
My basement renovation required an LVL with a steel support beam. The load the beam was supporting also required an updated footing. It wasn't too bad of a job, but the structural engineer will be able to spec all of that out.
 
I used to work as an architect (thankfully not anymore) and your best bet would be a survey from a structural engineer.

Others have offered possible solutions and to answer your "can this be done" question, there are plenty of different solutions to something like this, the only restriction is usually the surrounding walls and foundations. Remove just two of the columns (half the price!) and you're essentially looking to transfer 2 point loads down some alternate loadbearing wall and into the foundation. Loadbearing walls are easy to strengthen, but the capacity of the available foundation is the most important bit.

I doubt you could just move the columns a few feet though. There is probably some reinforcing pier or pile beneath the slab supporting those 4 columns. But again it all depends on the construction of the floor, which in turn depends on ground conditions and building practices at the time the house was built. The floor joists will also have been designed around the 4 supports - moving them apart increases the span and adds an unexpected shear strain coming from the force above which was previously transferred directly through the joist and into the column. Moving a column further down the joist and you're essential asking that joist to transfer a load horizontally which they might not be able to do. Anyone can hold a bucket of water against their belly because the force just transfers directly down, but hold it out at full arms length and it becomes significantly harder.

Again, it all depends. It can be done, but the way it can be done all depends on the existing construction.

A decent engineer who has worked in the area for years will probably take one look at the place and know exactly what solution will work. Then it's just a case of working some numbers to PROVE it can be done (that's what you're paying for), and drawing it up.
 
Old-Duckman said:
You don't say but I am assuming that you already have an "I" beam running the length of the house and the supports are placed at intervals under that beam.

I had a similar situation in my place. My father was one of those guys who knew everyone so he asked some engineering savvy guy what we had to do to stiffen up the "I" beam enough to be able to remove the pole.

The solution for my place was 1/4" plate, 8 feet long on each side of the "I" beam. In essence we made a box out of the beam. The 8 foot was not centered over the pole but was split 5' & 3' and that was reversed on the other side of the beam.

That was done shortly after I moved into the house, about 25 years ago. Just this year I fixed up my basement to accept the table I had at my mother's house for oh those many years. It is a 9' Brunswick Madison made in the early 1900's.

Anyway, a few months ago I removed the pole from underneath the beam. The span between the remaining poles was over 20 feet (23 if I remember correctly). Well when I started to back off the screw jack at the top of the pole the house made some creaking noises (made me wonder if I was crazy and making a big mistake).

Turned out the beam sagged about 5mm (that is less than 1/4", 6.35mm = 1/4"). 5mm over 23 feet....I think that is pretty good, my dad's friend did his calculating well.

Had the table moved and set-up exactly 1 week ago today.

So, from my experience I would give you a big "go ahead" as long as you get someone to spec the right reinforcing. Also my father was a construction Boilermaker so the man knew how to weld ! You don't want some hack who "knows how to weld" do the job for you either. Get a professional, certified welder to attach the plate.
Click to expand...

This scenario is carried out many times, because of the constraints of poles. A good engineer can get the job done with minimal costs (not necessarily cheap). It is much less expensive than building on or buying another home.
 
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