Rule Question for nine ball the old way

B

BillyRinNC

Registered
We used to play nine ball before ball in hand and if the player did not make a good hit the next shooter had the option to make him shoot again. I was told the other night that if it makes a good hit but then scratches that the option still applies. Is this true?

I realize that in some ring games they now spot all balls and play this way.
 
No, You only get the option of making them shoot again if he/she lets you know its a pushout before they shoot. good question though. . . canwin
 
This applies when you are playing 1 on 1. Ring games are different and you make up your own rules about spotting balls. canwin
 
Donald A. Purdy said:
I don't remember any push out back then. Does anybody else here?
Don :cool:
Click to expand...
There was before the ball in hand rule.
A scratch on a good hit is a spot shot if the ob is in the kitchen.
If not, BIH in the kitchen.
I believe. :D
 
Push Out

Donald A. Purdy said:
I don't remember any push out back then. Does anybody else here?
Don :cool:
Click to expand...



I remember the push out very well. There was a strategy in that. Instead of HAVING to try to make a good hit on the object ball, you could push the CB to where you could at least see the object ball. The opposing player then had the option of shooting or making you shoot again. If shooting again and missed, then it was ball in hand to other player.

Since there was a strategy in the game that no longer exists, does anyone know why it was changed? I was away from the game for a while and just never knew why or the reasoning behind changing the rules.

Phyllis Gumphrey
 
Joseph Cues said:
There was before the ball in hand rule.
A scratch on a good hit is a spot shot if the ob is in the kitchen.
If not, BIH in the kitchen.
I believe. :D
Click to expand...


Right. As for making the other player shoot again after a scratch, I don't know if it is an option. But as a practical matter it is, because you can just take a deliberate and give him the same BIH in kitchen. But you wouldn't do this. Gotta be able to make a spot shot in pushout 9 ball. ;)

The ball in hand rule was meant to add offense to the game. Instead I think it added defense. If people played 2 foul, I think people would take more shotmaking risks.
 
JPB said:
Right. As for making the other player shoot again after a scratch, I don't know if it is an option. But as a practical matter it is, because you can just take a deliberate and give him the same BIH in kitchen. But you wouldn't do this. Gotta be able to make a spot shot in pushout 9 ball. ;)

The ball in hand rule was meant to add offense to the game. Instead I think it added defense. If people played 2 foul, I think people would take more shotmaking risks.
Click to expand...




Yeah, that was another thing. I am running across people (mostly youngsters but not all) who actually DO NOT know about making a spot-shot. Something that was used all the time and well practiced. I can still fire in a spot shot every time and some of these kids think it is such a great shot. I always say, "It was just a spot shot". They just look at me like they are clueless and I usually have to explain.

Phyllis Gumphrey
 
Phylbert57 said:
Yeah, that was another thing. I am running across people (mostly youngsters but not all) who actually DO NOT know about making a spot-shot. Something that was used all the time and well practiced. I can still fire in a spot shot every time and some of these kids think it is such a great shot. I always say, "It was just a spot shot". They just look at me like they are clueless and I usually have to explain.

Phyllis Gumphrey
Click to expand...
Try showing them 2 balls on the spot, make the lead ball go to the left corner, then wait for the other ball to come back on that area and sink it in on that same pocket. 2 shots, 2 balls on the same pocket. :D
 
joseph, if you're talking about the shot i think you are, i try to practice it at least a dozen times every time i play. it's an excellent one pocket shot... i usually can make the back ball and the front ball goes two rails to stop somewhere near my pocket.
 
Phylbert57 said:
I remember the push out very well. There was a strategy in that. Instead of HAVING to try to make a good hit on the object ball, you could push the CB to where you could at least see the object ball. The opposing player then had the option of shooting or making you shoot again. If shooting again and missed, then it was ball in hand to other player.

Since there was a strategy in the game that no longer exists, does anyone know why it was changed? I was away from the game for a while and just never knew why or the reasoning behind changing the rules.

Phyllis Gumphrey
Click to expand...

That's the way we used to play it, too.

I just returned to the game a few months ago after a 30-yr lay-off. I don't like the new BIH rules. BIH waaay too often!
 
tobyjoe said:
joseph, if you're talking about the shot i think you are, i try to practice it at least a dozen times every time i play. it's an excellent one pocket shot... i usually can make the back ball and the front ball goes two rails to stop somewhere near my pocket.
Click to expand...

And they call you "no-stroke"!

The shot there is to make the first ball straight in, but unless you have a stroke it is impossible to do...

-pigy
 
piglit said:
And they call you "no-stroke"!

The shot there is to make the first ball straight in, but unless you have a stroke it is impossible to do...

-pigy
Click to expand...

haha. yeah, you're right. i mistyped. shows what happens when you post from your laptop in a meeting you're supposed to be paying attention to, haha.

the FRONT ball goes to the pocket, the BACK ball goes to the foot, back to the head, and down to the same pocket.

shoot about 6 inches from the head spot with lots of bottom, hit the FRONT ball square.

:)
 
tobyjoe said:
haha. yeah, you're right. i mistyped. shows what happens when you post from your laptop in a meeting you're supposed to be paying attention to, haha.

the FRONT ball goes to the pocket, the BACK ball goes to the foot, back to the head, and down to the same pocket.

shoot about 6 inches from the head spot with lots of bottom, hit the FRONT ball square.

:)
Click to expand...
I shoot about 2 inches to the right of the center of the kitchen.
I saw one fool prop Efren this one time at HT. Efren shot both balls in the same pocket on one try. Didn't even take the other guy's money. It was too easy for him.
Of course, fools who can't draw a lick like me takes about a dozen tries to do it.
 
I remember the push out very well. There was a strategy in that. Instead of HAVING to try to make a good hit on the object ball, you could push the CB to where you could at least see the object ball. The opposing player then had the option of shooting or making you shoot again. If shooting again and missed, then it was ball in hand to other player.

Since there was a strategy in the game that no longer exists, does anyone know why it was changed? I was away from the game for a while and just never knew why or the reasoning behind changing the rules.


Its not a foul by pushout 9ball rules to miss a ball as long as you don’t do anything illegal so I don’t agree with your example above. In 2 foul 9ball you have to remember what a legal shot is versus what a foul is, and that your opponent can not foul 2 consecutive times in a row in 2 consecutive innings at the table. You have to remember your opponent (anytime they have 1 foul from the previous inning) can go back to having zero fouls if they make a good legal shot on his/her next turn at the table regardless of whether they make the ball or not and the sequence starts over at zero . If, on the other hand, they don’t make a legal shot(and they have 1 foul already) then they commit their 2nd foul in a row and it is only then you get ball in hand. Its way more difficult to get the ball in hand when you play this way and a much more interesting strategy involved in the escape. You had to pocket more balls without ball in hand more often than not and could not rely on the obvious ball in hand. The rules were changed to make this strategy that no longer exists extinct and the results of what you see, more prevalent. One foul ball in hand cheapens the game of 9ball considerably while giving the illusion that the game is being played in the spirit it was meant to be played. canwin
 
Phylbert57 said:
I remember the push out very well. There was a strategy in that. Instead of HAVING to try to make a good hit on the object ball, you could push the CB to where you could at least see the object ball. The opposing player then had the option of shooting or making you shoot again. If shooting again and missed, then it was ball in hand to other player.

Since there was a strategy in the game that no longer exists, does anyone know why it was changed? I was away from the game for a while and just never knew why or the reasoning behind changing the rules.

Phyllis Gumphrey
Click to expand...

I read recently that the one shot foul rule was implemented in the late 70s early 80s to give the East Coast Pros a better chance of winning against the West Coast Pros. Wether this is true or not, the game has changed forever since this was adopted.

The change took the advantage away from the more skilled players. The strategy was somewhat lost as a skill, it's still there, but not as important as it was back then (IMO).

The rules were easier to learn for the younger players. The chances of winning increased for the in-experienced. I remember using the roll out rule when I was left very bad shape on the 9 ball by a poor attempt by a lessor skilled player to pocket the 9 and missing so bad, I had an even worse shot than he did. So, I rolled the cue to where he would still have a tough shot, but I would be able to have a better chance of making the shot if he passed it back to me.

This senerio could/would happen in the 'two shot foul' or 'roll out' 9 ball game of the 60s and 70s, I played. The better player always had the advantage coming to the table. He always had the opportunity to recover from a bad leave or sloppy position. This game didn't provide a lot of offensive shots like today's game. But at the same time, the 'safes' of today are much better than they were then. IMO
 
Tom In Cincy said:
I read recently that the one shot foul rule was implemented in the late 70s early 80s to give the East Coast Pros a better chance of winning against the West Coast Pros. Wether this is true or not, the game has changed forever since this was adopted.

The change took the advantage away from the more skilled players. The strategy was somewhat lost as a skill, it's still there, but not as important as it was back then (IMO).

The rules were easier to learn for the younger players. The chances of winning increased for the in-experienced. I remember using the roll out rule when I was left very bad shape on the 9 ball by a poor attempt by a lessor skilled player to pocket the 9 and missing so bad, I had an even worse shot than he did. So, I rolled the cue to where he would still have a tough shot, but I would be able to have a better chance of making the shot if he passed it back to me.

This senerio could/would happen in the 'two shot foul' or 'roll out' 9 ball game of the 60s and 70s, I played. The better player always had the advantage coming to the table. He always had the opportunity to recover from a bad leave or sloppy position. This game didn't provide a lot of offensive shots like today's game. But at the same time, the 'safes' of today are much better than they were then. IMO
Click to expand...




I totally agree about what you‘ve read. I’ve known this to be true for decades from people in the know. I’m startled to hear it here.. It‘s more than time that this needs to be talked about but that‘s all that will be done about it. A small cliche changed the rules and formed another cliche and gave them all the special treatment and psychological advantages they could think of too and still do. Corrupt, sneaky and underhanded are too mild of words to describe the so called major players, promoters, and TD’s of that era. They all paint a picture that they’re on your side, then when they get you to the tournament, will do whatever it takes to scam you. Its business as usual still. Some of the biggest cons can now be found at tournaments. And what they did to the game is pretty unspeakable with all of the trickle down effect it has had on the way they play now. Now the game is like the inventors.. sneaky and underhanded. Yes, the 'safes' are better now, they are also breed a crutch ball in hand mentality. Most games are boring,sterile and predictable. canwin
 
In the late 60s the pool hall that I played didnt use push out . If you left it bad on the break you had to go for a good hit and if you missed it was an option to other player. This was house rules which may have differed in other areas.
BillyRinNC
 
Phylbert57 said:
I remember the push out very well. There was a strategy in that. Instead of HAVING to try to make a good hit on the object ball, you could push the CB to where you could at least see the object ball. The opposing player then had the option of shooting or making you shoot again. If shooting again and missed, then it was ball in hand to other player.

Since there was a strategy in the game that no longer exists, does anyone know why it was changed? I was away from the game for a while and just never knew why or the reasoning behind changing the rules.

Phyllis Gumphrey
Click to expand...

The main reason the game was changed to "one foul"...
during the Jansco STARDUST AND JOHNSON CITY tourneys back in the 70's..the 9ball game was race to 11...two shot shoot out...the games were taking too long so The Janscos changed the rules to "one foul ball in hand"
..which at the time was called "vegas rules". But the game was also changed to race to 9 and alternate breaks, so the games did speed up a little.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top