Rule Question for nine ball the old way

[canwin]

The main reason the game was changed to "one foul"...
during the Jansco STARDUST AND JOHNSON CITY tourneys back in the 70's..the 9ball game was race to 11...two shot shoot out...the games were taking too long so The Janscos changed the rules to "one foul ball in hand"
..which at the time was called "vegas rules". But the game was also changed to race to 9 and alternate breaks, so the games did speed up a little.

I say 1 miss ball in hand worked out best for women and TV, as women tend to rely more on safeties to get ball in hand than not and they have more visual appeal than the men. People aren't there just for pool, they are there to see the show. Did you watch the Apprentice when the women beat the men every time they used sex to market their product? The bottom line for me, is the impact it had on the original game and never confuse the two. Its like comparing original 1 pocket and changing it to 1 foul ball in hand. They ruined the 9ball, they might as well ruin 1 pocket as well. What do you think it would do to snooker? They did it just so they could incorporate their 1 pocket moves into the 9ball and benefit from it before it caught on. The trickle down effect on the main strategy is that everyone shoots 9ball like a pool pussy now, trying to get ball in hand. I was thinking that that would be a good name for the women's tour but the more I think about it, it should be for a men’s tour. The PPA.

you just keep thinkin Butch.... .. canwin

 

[Phylbert57]

I remember the push out very well. There was a strategy in that. Instead of HAVING to try to make a good hit on the object ball, you could push the CB to where you could at least see the object ball. The opposing player then had the option of shooting or making you shoot again. If shooting again and missed, then it was ball in hand to other player.

Since there was a strategy in the game that no longer exists, does anyone know why it was changed? I was away from the game for a while and just never knew why or the reasoning behind changing the rules.{MY QUOTE}

------------------------------------------------------------------------
{Your Quote}
Its not a foul by pushout 9ball rules to miss a ball as long as you don’t do anything illegal so I don’t agree with your example above. In 2 foul 9ball you have to remember what a legal shot is versus what a foul is, and that your opponent can not foul 2 consecutive times in a row in 2 consecutive innings at the table. You have to remember your opponent (anytime they have 1 foul from the previous inning) can go back to having zero fouls if they make a good legal shot on his/her next turn at the table regardless of whether they make the ball or not and the sequence starts over at zero . If, on the other hand, they don’t make a legal shot(and they have 1 foul already) then they commit their 2nd foul in a row and it is only then you get ball in hand. Its way more difficult to get the ball in hand when you play this way and a much more interesting strategy involved in the escape. You had to pocket more balls without ball in hand more often than not and could not rely on the obvious ball in hand. The rules were changed to make this strategy that no longer exists extinct and the results of what you see, more prevalent. One foul ball in hand cheapens the game of 9ball considerably while giving the illusion that the game is being played in the spirit it was meant to be played. canwin

That is what I said - mostly. Making a good hit is the legal shot. If you miss the hit - the other player can make you shoot again. Pushing out, you don't make the good hit and the other player can make you shoot again. it is just that if you push; you may be able to get to a place where the ball is either makable or you can play safe or whatever. If you miss the good hit again then it would be ball in hand.

The strategy is that you can push to a spot that may be more difficult for the other player than it is for you. That way if they want to go ahead and shoot - their option, they could miss and leave a better shot. At the same time, that could also happen to you if you screw it up.

Phyllis Gumphrey

 

[stick8]

rule

[joseph cues , you are correctball in hand in kitchen,ob spots if in kitchen Iknow beenshooting 50 yr STICK

 

[piglit]

...everyone shoots 9ball like a pool pussy now, trying to get ball in hand...

you just keep thinkin Butch.... .. canwin

Oh yeah, as if being able to push from a safety isn't a total beaver move!

-pigi

 

[catscradle]

I don't remember any push out back then. Does anybody else here?
Don

I don't remember it because I didn't play much 'til I was much older than most people are when they start, but a friend of mine said they used to play where you could push out on every shot with your opponent still having the option to take the shot or stick you with it. Certainly would change the safety game, wouldn't it?

 

[canwin]

Oh yeah, as if being able to push from a safety isn't a total beaver move!

-pigi

I’m not going to go into a diatribe/tirade about it. We are like parallel lines on this one, we're never going to meet. The only balls it takes to play the game now is the ones in your hand.

the total tonnage of what you don't know . . .. canwin

 

[piglit]

I’m not going to go into a diatribe/tirade about it. We are like parallel lines on this one, we're never going to meet. The only balls it takes to play the game now is the ones in your hand.

the total tonnage of what you don't know . . .. canwin

But we have met! Agree to disagree...

In my PHall, before everyone went to 1Foul, we played 2Foul BIH. After a push, the incoming player had all the usual pushout rights, + could play another safe. If the pusher didn't hit the ball the 2nd time, BIH.

-pige

 

[canwin]

I used to like 9ball before its downfall by an unrealistic rule change because you had the freedom to do whatever you wanted with the cueball and not be penalized too harsh, allowing for imaginative Qball movement that’s controlled by each player. Its truly a sweaters delight to watch. It allows an option of a controlled escape(sometimes you don’t escape) while maintaining the continuity of the game, just as straight pool and 1 pocket allow for. It is the best way to improve a persons shotmaking/shape ability as your going to be tested more often and does not cater to those whose only imagination and ability is to play safe to gain the advantage which goes against the spirit of the game.

I’ve got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals. . . canwin