Rule question

[RackemBilliards]

Ok, so here's one that came up in our annual 14.1 league. A player is on 2 fouls, and has been warned, and then makes a legal shot and pockets a ball. He then accidently touches a ball and instinctively grabs it and moves it back without giving his opponent the option of leaving it. Is that his third foul, or did the 2 fouls come off when he made the shot? Does it depend on the elapsed time-that is- if the balls had stopped and sat for 6 seconds, and then he moved it, would the answer be different than if it was while they were still rolling? Just curious what you think. It turned out ok because we keep antique dueling pistols in the back for situations like these

 

[zencues.com]

Here is how I would likely play it, if it has to be called.

If the balls are still moving when he touched a ball then it's the third foul.

If the balls have stopped moving then the two fouls come off the board at that instant and then touching a ball is the first foul and inning is over.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I think it depends on the timing as in the response above. The same issue can come up if you are playing all fouls.

 

[Gerry]

OP, Can you give us a little more timing info between legally pocketing the ball, and the touch?

G.

 

[RackemBilliards]

OP, Can you give us a little more timing info between legally pocketing the ball, and the touch?

G.

Sure. Thanks for the interest. I actually have a bit more info now. Apparently, the gentleman who was on 2 fouls pocketed a ball legally on his next shot, and moved a different ball in the process. The pocketed ball was down, of course, and the only other ball moving was the cueball. We play cueball fouls only in our league, unless the shot is affected or could have been.

Because of that, touching the ball wouldn't have been a foul. He grabbed it and put it back, though, without giving the option, which would make it a foul. Here's the good part. Everyone seems to agree that the cueball was moving when he touched the ball (not a foul), but had stopped before he grabbed it and put it back, lol. No matter. The TD called it 'not the 3rd foul', and it gives us something to argue about when we get tired of arguing about Bob's 'backwards cut off the spot' shot

By the way, if it had been the 3rd foul, does his opponent have the choice of taking the table in position, or having the balls broken again? The 2008 rule book says they get reracked, period. We argue about that, too. And whether it's changed. And if so, when. All in good fun, or course! Any and all thoughts are appreciated!

 

[AtLarge]

... By the way, if it had been the 3rd foul, does his opponent have the choice of taking the table in position, or having the balls broken again? The 2008 rule book says they get reracked, period. We argue about that, too. And whether it's changed. And if so, when. All in good fun, or course! Any and all thoughts are appreciated!

The option to take the table as is (rather than re-racking and having the offending player execute an opening break) was eliminated in the 2008 WPA rules revision. The re-racking requirement is still in effect.

 

[krupa]

Because of that, touching the ball wouldn't have been a foul. He grabbed it and put it back, though, without giving the option, which would make it a foul. Here's the good part. Everyone seems to agree that the cueball was moving when he touched the ball (not a foul), but had stopped before he grabbed it and put it back

This... is very confusing.

If I'm the incoming shooter and I accidentally move a ball (before I shoot) it is not a foul. Correct?
And if I move a ball and let my opponent replace it, it is not a foul. Correct?
So why is it a foul if I move it twice and still give my opponent the option of replacing it?

 

[Demondrew]

This... is very confusing.

If I'm the incoming shooter and I accidentally move a ball (before I shoot) it is not a foul. Correct?
And if I move a ball and let my opponent replace it, it is not a foul. Correct?
So why is it a foul if I move it twice and still give my opponent the option of replacing it?

If the first touch of an object is unintentional, in a game without a ref it is not a foul; but you must give your opponent the opportunity to replace the ball. Touching the ball the second time is intentional and because of the intent is a foul.
Just one man’s opinion.
Andy