Rules question (specifically TAP League)

Solomon

Solomon

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was playing in a match and my opponent was shooting. The object ball he was shooting at was frozen to the rail. Once he shot, the cue ball made contact with the object ball that was frozen to the rail, then the cue ball hit the rail that the object ball was frozen to, then the cue ball came to a stop in the middle of the table without any other ball hitting another rail.

I thought that it was a "Good Hit" because the cue ball hit a rail after making contact with his object ball (even though the rail was the rail that the object ball was frozen to).

He grabbed the cue ball and said that I had ball in hand because he said that the object ball was "part of the rail" because it was frozen. Therefore, the cue ball or any other ball would have had to hit another rail.

Here is the actual rule from the TAP rule book:

"Ball Frozen to the Rail
This occurs when an object ball is touching the rail and becomes part of the rail. The opponent must declare the ball frozen before the shot is executed. If the intended object ball is frozen the shooter must do one or all of the following: (1) have the cue ball touch a rail after contacting the intended ball; (2) drive the intended ball to another rail; or (3) drive any other ball to a rail after contacting the intended ball. Remember, the match belongs to the two players. Teammates and coaches can be charged a time out for any assistance."

Although I benefitted from his interpretation of the rules, I honestly thought that he made a good hit and would have just shot from where the cue ball stopped. It ended up costing him the game and I won the match.
 
People misinterpret this all the time. It was a good hit. He touched an OB, then a rail.

A frozen OB cannot touch that same rail, but a cue ball can!

Good hit.
 
He most likely used the APA rule for this as it is a foul in the APA. Most rules I have seen though this is a legal hit. Good for him to have the sportsmanship to call a foul on himself even though it was an incorrect call.
 
RioSevario said:
He most likely used the APA rule for this as it is a foul in the APA. Most rules I have seen though this is a legal hit. Good for him to have the sportsmanship to call a foul on himself even though it was an incorrect call.
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I'm not sure what rule he was going by because the APA rule seems to be clearer than the TAP rule:

The object ball is frozen to a rail and the player is contemplating playing a "safety." In order for the "frozen ball" rule to be in effect, the opponent must declare the ball frozen and the player should verify. Once it is agreed the ball is frozen the player must drive the object ball to another rail (of course, it could hit another ball, which in turn hits a rail) or drive the cue ball to a rail after it touches the object ball. If the latter method of safety is chosen the player should be sure to obviously strike the object ball first. If the cue ball strikes the rail first or appears to hit both the rail and ball simultaneously, it is a foul unless either the cue ball or object ball went to some other rail.

I'm with you though. Good on him for good sportsmanship.
 
Solomon said:
The object ball is frozen to a rail and the player is contemplating playing a "safety." In order for the "frozen ball" rule to be in effect, the opponent must declare the ball frozen and the player should verify. Once it is agreed the ball is frozen the player must drive the object ball to another rail (of course, it could hit another ball, which in turn hits a rail) or drive the cue ball to a rail after it touches the object ball. If the latter method of safety is chosen the player should be sure to obviously strike the object ball first. If the cue ball strikes the rail first or appears to hit both the rail and ball simultaneously, it is a foul unless either the cue ball or object ball went to some other rail.

I'm with you though. Good on him for good sportsmanship.
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The rule tells you, even in APA that it is a legal shot. Yes, the frozen ball would have to travel to a different rail, but the cue ball only needs to be driven "to a rail" which would include the rail the ball is frozen to.
 
RioSevario said:
He most likely used the APA rule for this as it is a foul in the APA. Most rules I have seen though this is a legal hit. Good for him to have the sportsmanship to call a foul on himself even though it was an incorrect call.
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The hit described is legal in APA, not sure about TAP but I expect it was legal in that system as well.
 
Your opponent, having prior experience in both APA and TAP leagues, should have remembered the differences in rule sets. Unfortunately, he did not, and it cost him the game and the match.

If this was a team match, and he didn't used up his time outs, in retrospect he could've called for one to check the rules before conceding.


Ball Frozen to the Rail
This occurs when an object ball is touching the rail and
becomes part of the rail. The opponent must declare the ball frozen
before the shot is executed. If the intended object ball is frozen the
shooter must do one or all of the following: (1) have the cue ball touch
a rail after contacting the intended ball; (2) drive the intended ball to
another rail; or (3) drive any other ball to a rail after contacting the
intended ball. Remember, the match belongs to the two players.
Teammates and coaches can be charged a time out for any assistance.

http://www.tapleague.com/files/pdfs/8_9_ball_rulebook.pdf


APA
http://www.poolplayers.com/8-9-ball-Rules.pdf
 
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ctyhntr said:
Your opponent, having prior experience in both APA and TAP leagues, should have remembered the differences in rule sets. Unfortunately, he did not, and it cost him the game and the match.
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Again, there is no difference to remember. The rules are the same. Legal shot.
 
Ahaha, these replies just prove my point. You will never ever get ball in hand from me on that shot.

It is a legal hit worldwide.
 
that's a legal shot, in both TAP and APA. Both leagues rules are basically identical anyways besides TAP is call short and open off the break
 
Thank you all for confirming what I suspected to be true in the first place. He should have left the cue ball alone and let me shoot from where the cue ball stopped. When I see him this week, I will try to explain to him that he made a mistake so that he doesn't repeat the same mistake in the future.

I like to think that the one game wouldn't have altered the outcome of the match. I won the match 4-1 (I needed 4 games, he needed 5 games).
 
I know this rule has come up before, and while there are no rules now that have the "frozen ball needs to drive the cueball to another rail" thing in them, I swear when I started playing in the late 80s and was reading rules, I read that there was a rule that a ball frozen to a rail made that rail dead not just for that ball but also for the cueball. I bet your opponent heard/read that same thing and just never updated his ideas about the shot.

The rule may be 50 years old and maybe applies in one game, but I am positive I read it.
 
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