Sadistic Genie

[MattPoland]

It seems like everything I've heard suggests visualizing a positive outcome and hopefully that will give you a boost in confidence that gets you across the goal. Perhaps the visualize losing is not about confidence, but, instead is about detachment. By accepting the negative outcome, we won't get flustered when struggling, thereby exacerbating the problem. Personally I've struggled a lot playing weaker players because I'm not blowing them off the table. Conversely, when playing stronger players, I often punch above my weight class because I am not attached to the outcome, I probably can't beat this guy so if I can stay in the game at all I'm doing well. So I don't think it's the same type of visualization, one is hyping yourself up to do well, the other is pre-accepting a poor performance so when the game goes poorly you have "accepted" the result instead of carrying that weight.

I think there’s a lot to be said about relaxing into the moment and letting the performance happen instead of forcing it to happen through sheer expectation. That said, ‘visualization’ is a strong word in terms of making explicit and specific choices prior to the execution of a shot. I know the original comment was about ‘visualizing losing’ but that’s dangerously adjacent to ‘visualizing missing’ and ‘visualizing getting hooked’ because those are outcomes we manifest typically through the measures we take to avoid them. When we do the ‘Inner Game of Tennis’ stuff, we try to combine both those ideas of “letting the performance happen” and “visualizing success”.

 

[Tin Man]

Kollege, tomato, thank you for the conversation.

There have been some interesting discussions about this from some mental game greats in other sports. They were very clear about how we do our visualization. We are not to imagine ourselves missing key shots, but rather picture ourselves in a situation in which we have to shrug off a mistake and move forward. We are not to imagine ourselves losing game after game, but rather visualize ourselves facing a score deficit and making a rally.

My point is there is a correct way to do this. I agree we don't want to visualize ourselves losing a match in full color. But the feeling you get after a match where you detach (correct word tomato) from emotional attachment to the outcome, and all you feel is a regret you didn't just give it your best swing. If you can anchor that feeling it can be a big boost.

I missed a hill-hill 9 ball once. Every time that shot comes up I remember back to that miss. Not missing it, but right after, how I just wanted so badly to hit it the way I knew it was supposed to be hit. For some reason that has helped a ton.

Anyway, I'm just saying this stuff is nuanced. It's not a superficial gimmick. It's learning what types of chains of thoughts lead to what types of states of mind for ourselves over time.

 

[Guy Manges]

Suppose you find a lamp that belongs to a sadistic genie. When you wish to be a great pool player he says he'll grant that wish with one caveat: You will play amazing, but only 50% of the sessions you play. Half the days you will be in the zone, sometimes winning against better players, setting new high runs, snapping off tournaments, or just feeling great as you confidently smooth the balls in the pockets. The other half of the days you will hook yourself with ball in hand, go off the table on the break, rattle anything more than a foot from the pocket, the contact point will shift back and forth like eye floaters and it will feel like your stroke has 12 hinges moving side to side. Would you accept that?

I've been playing hard for about 30 years now and I've come to believe that is how pool works. It's stunning what the range is between my best game and my worst game. And I have absolutely no control over when it happens. Oh, sure, I can do things that give me my best chance to have a good day. And do you know what I think the most important of those things are? ACCEPTING THIS!

See, as long as you think of yourself as the player that plays your best game you will be set up for failure. It isn't realistic and creates fear of exposure (you're always trying to believe you are done with bad days and always afraid to be proven wrong, the ol' "I thought I was past this" mentality). It creates pressure. It creates expectations. It creates entitlement (I'm here to collect my results, versus I'm here to work my tail off fruitlessly). This doesn't lead to the zone.

When you embrace your worst game then all is better. Go to your match prepared to be helpless, disconnected, incompetent, off balance, nervous, and frustrated. Be prepared to work your tail off and come short. Be prepared to face ugly layouts and fall short. If you can accept that then you're in good shape. You have nothing left to fear, no image to protect, and you can just go about your business of trying hard and enjoying the challenge.

Guess what? If you do that session after session the good sessions will come. You don't deserve it. You can't bottle it. But you will have your time in the sun.

I hear some of you now. "You need to be confident!" "You get what you expect!" "Fake it until you make it!" Yeah right. I AM confident. I am confident in my PROCESSES, confident that I will try my best on every shot, keep my attitude positive. But we don't control outcomes and trying to control something we can't leads to frustration and fear. And expectations are all ego driven result thinking. No good. CJ Wiley had a great post a few months ago about how he visualized having lost every match before he played it. This is perfect. It's about SURRENDER. You surrender control and then give it your all.

The simple fact is there is no approach that leads to consistent quality play. The best approach is to accept it, do the best every session you can, and enjoy the good and the bad. When you play to have fun you win as soon as you put your cue together. You will give yourself the most opportunities to play great by not choking your game, and you will enjoy the whole journey more as well.

Accepting = A pool player, Then the love of the games comes in.... thank you for that, Pool is our life.... The table is our challenge....

 

[Guy Manges]

Hi penguin. Thank you for the reply.

I never said anything about a lost cause. Those are your words! I only point out that we can never eliminate the swings in our games. Please see my post above and watch the 3 minute video.

I absolutely agree that this is a game of improvement. I have spent a big part of my life pursuing incrementally better performances. Higher average performances are possible. Higher best performances are possible. Higher worst performances are possible. But consistency is not. No matter how much you improve your performance range, you will always have good days and bad days.

The distinction is critically important because most people have a narrative that goes like this: "Right now I'm this inconsistent mess. I know deep down I'm and awesome player because when I'm on it's AMAZING, but for some stupid reason a lot of days I just can't do anything. There must be something wrong, and when I figure it out and fix it, then I'll feel the way I do on my best days all of the time, I'll never have doubts and fears, I'll never have feelings of helplessness, it'll be my time!" Maybe that's not your narrative, but I've felt that way in the past and I've seen many, many people buy into this.

But here's the rub: SVB feels just as frustrated and disconnected and helpless when he's having a bad day playing at 750 speed as a 600FR player does when he's playing at 525 speed. SVB's hard work and practice allowed him to develop his skills to the point he can win championships and even touch 900 speed for short bursts. But it doesn't stop the bad days and how ugly it feels to go through them. Now, you can say he is consistent in the sense that he is consistently over 750FR speed, but that doesn't mean that playing his worst feels any different for him than it does for you.

With this better understanding you can improve your narrative. Instead of trying to do the impossible and achieve consistency, you can accept this and go with the flow. Again, this doesn't mean you can't improve. Of course you can. But you're not improving because 'some day the game won't bully me and make me feel bad'. You're improving so that when things go well you can new high water marks. And your worst game will get better as well, so even when it feels terrible you will be able to stagger through some matches, giving yourself a chance to catch a gear and turn it around later.

My main point is that if we're going to have below average days half the time, let's not let that deflate us! No one ever promised consistency was possible, it is our own fable we created and buy into. One that leads to frustration, feelings of betrayal, and feelings of insufficiency and defectiveness. We can instead accept that there is nothing wrong with us or our game plan if our performance goes sideways half the time. Instead let's stick to the game plan of improvement. And if we understand this there is no reason to be miserable half the time. Just enjoy the whole journey, take the good with the bad, and keep moving. By aligning our expectations to reality we can enjoy the game more of the time, take pressure off ourselves, and quiet the doubts and fears that are telling us we are on the wrong road. And I believe by knowing this IS the right road we'll make more progress because we are having fun and confident in our path. Tin Man out.

God says that is exactly what a human being will do.... We are to accept.... Thank you Tin Man

 

[cueman]

If I could play amazing for one full week then play like garbage the next week that would be fine. At least I would win half the events. But how it has been for me is I might play lights out for a day and play horrible the next day. So most of the events I have won were one day tournaments.

 

[jokrswylde]

Happened to me in a match Monday against a weaker, but capable, opponent. Won the lag and broke dry. Things got worse from there. First rack I rattled the 8 on a simple cut. Then it just seemed to get into my head. EVERY SHOT was a struggle. It was as if I were trying to swim upstream the whole match. Straight in shots hung up in the pocket, Easy 30 degree cuts missed by half a diamond, I knocked the cueball off the table on 2 straight breaks.

The thing about it is, the internal dialogue I am having with myself during this whole spectacle is very positive. I was very aware that I was "off" and that it was going to be a long night. I tried focusing on little things like my PSR. Nothing worked. I finally scratched and clawed my way to a 5 foot, 10 degree cut into the corner on the 8 at hill-hill.

I felt good about the shot line. Got down, felt good about my practice strokes and my aim point...deep breath...pause...stroke....follow through....head down on the shot.....contact with the OB... 8 ball rattles the points and sits in the corner. I lose.

Literally the most furious I have ever been after a match. I have lost plenty and have always been able to chalk it up as "got outplayed" "not my night" "other guy was just better" "too many mistakes", etc. But this time was different. I was fuming at myself...still am. I usually practice 2-3 hours per night...haven't even taken my cues out of the case since Monday. Might not for the foreseeable future.

 

[Tin Man]

Happened to me in a match Monday against a weaker, but capable, opponent. Won the lag and broke dry. Things got worse from there. First rack I rattled the 8 on a simple cut. Then it just seemed to get into my head. EVERY SHOT was a struggle. It was as if I were trying to swim upstream the whole match. Straight in shots hung up in the pocket, Easy 30 degree cuts missed by half a diamond, I knocked the cueball off the table on 2 straight breaks.

The thing about it is, the internal dialogue I am having with myself during this whole spectacle is very positive. I was very aware that I was "off" and that it was going to be a long night. I tried focusing on little things like my PSR. Nothing worked. I finally scratched and clawed my way to a 5 foot, 10 degree cut into the corner on the 8 at hill-hill.

I felt good about the shot line. Got down, felt good about my practice strokes and my aim point...deep breath...pause...stroke....follow through....head down on the shot.....contact with the OB... 8 ball rattles the points and sits in the corner. I lose.

Literally the most furious I have ever been after a match. I have lost plenty and have always been able to chalk it up as "got outplayed" "not my night" "other guy was just better" "too many mistakes", etc. But this time was different. I was fuming at myself...still am. I usually practice 2-3 hours per night...haven't even taken my cues out of the case since Monday. Might not for the foreseeable future.

The road to success is paved with losses. Every champion has a string of chokes and fumbles and missed opportunities. But no one remembers all of the times that filler or Shaw or SVB dog it and lose. We just remember their wins.

I believe the trick is to get more and more of these losses. I tell my students you need 19 losses for every tournament win. So if you want to win more tournaments, you need to collect more losses. I tell them to quit trying to figure out a road that avoids loss. And quit going to the pool hall hoping today is the day you don’t dog it. Instead I go to the tournaments fully prepared to miscue on the hill 9 ball and rack up another loss. I don’t care. I’ll just go swing away and add another to my loss collection. Sometimes I don’t dog it and my opponents fail in their job of beating me. When that happens I get handed an envelope of money and told I’m a champion. Whatever. I’m a donkey that my opponents let get away with one.

That’s how I see it anyway. If this is a rarity for you I don’t think your problem is a devastating loss, I think the problem is this needs to has to happen much, much more often. If you’re not losing you can’t win.

 

[jokrswylde]

The road to success is paved with losses. Every champion has a string of chokes and fumbles and missed opportunities. But no one remembers all of the times that filler or Shaw or SVB dog it and lose. We just remember their wins.

I believe the trick is to get more and more of these losses. I tell my students you need 19 losses for every tournament win. So if you want to win more tournaments, you need to collect more losses. I tell them to quit trying to figure out a road that avoids loss. And quit going to the pool hall hoping today is the day you don’t dog it. Instead I go to the tournaments fully prepared to miscue on the hill 9 ball and rack up another loss. I don’t care. I’ll just go swing away and add another to my loss collection. Sometimes I don’t dog it and my opponents fail in their job of beating me. When that happens I get handed an envelope of money and told I’m a champion. Whatever. I’m a donkey that my opponents let get away with one.

That’s how I see it anyway. If this is a rarity for you I don’t think your problem is a devastating loss, I think the problem is this needs to has to happen much, much more often. If you’re not losing you can’t win.

Thought provoking! Believe me, I lose plenty, and I am usually much more...philosophical about losing. I don't know, just this time really irked me. Maybe it's because I know how much and how hard I practice. I hate this game!

 

[tomatoshooter]

Thought provoking! Believe me, I lose plenty, and I am usually much more...philosophical about losing. I don't know, just this time really irked me. Maybe it's because I know how much and how hard I practice. I hate this game!

Yeah, some losses just stick in your craw. I'm trying to absorb some of Demetrius' philosophy. One thing that helped me deal with a losing streak was when I laid out 50 quarters randomly in 2 rows of 25. Heads is win, tails is loss. In both rows there were streaks of 5, 6, or 7. There were probably no more than 4 per row that weren't part of a streak. So even a 50-50 chance can seem lopsided most of the time. by superimposing the rows so a column with 2 tails is a loss and everything else is a win, I still might see 10 wins in a row an 4 losses. So that 50% chance of getting a bad roll on that shot can kick your ass WAY WAY more often that you can believe. And that low percentage shot can pay off so many times you will believe you have the game figured out.... until Mr Bad Luck decides to pay a visit.

 

[Tin Man]

Thought provoking! Believe me, I lose plenty, and I am usually much more...philosophical about losing. I don't know, just this time really irked me. Maybe it's because I know how much and how hard I practice. I hate this game!

Good conversation. Something that was on my mind today after reading this:

When you are a beginner you don't get upset if you miss. You understand you aren't very good and will miss a lot. If you played your first game of 3 cushion you wouldn't get upset if you missed. If you played banks at Derby and didn't normally play banks you wouldn't really get upset about losing or missing. In each case you'd be like "Meh, I'm just learning, not that great at this game", and it wouldn't really bother you. Maybe for a moment, just a momentary sting of a miss or a bad shot. But in general you'd be pretty chill.

We used to feel that way about pool. What changed? Somewhere along the line we decided we were a GOOD PLAYER. We had some big runs, ran a 4 rack run, won that local tournament. Suddenly we decided we are GOOD at the game. And we decided that a GOOD PLAYER should be able to run tables under pressure without error consistently. No one told us this was true. We just decided. Why? Because we are GOOD.

Imagine our outrage when that doesn't happen. What's going on?!? I'm a good player! I'm supposed to be winning! I should have made that! The score should've been 5-1! I should've won that set! Should should should should should.

It is all about expectations and ego. We can't see the ego but we can see it's footprints. Expectations and negative emotions (fear, frustration, fatigue, discouragement, self loathing). This is all a result of us deciding in our own minds that we are great. But it's not true! If it was true we wouldn't make these mistakes. The truth is that we are good players, but good with a lowercase g. And lowercase g good players make mistakes.

So my advice is to try to laugh at yourself for promoting yourself to elite status in your own mind. You aren't as good as you think, and this game is tougher than you think. That stings for a moment because we liked our imagined abilities. But once you come down to earth and accept reality it is a big weight off your shoulders. You don't have to live up to impossible standards anymore. You can just try your best and know that it won't always work and that's your pool game. No problem.

The best part is without all of that pressure you might just enjoy your sessions. And sometimes that relaxed outlook will help you play better and achieve great results. When it doesn't, no problem. When you play to have fun you win as soon as you put your cue together.

That's my outlook anyway. I just hit balls and enjoy watching them bounce around.

 

[jokrswylde]

Good conversation. Something that was on my mind today after reading this:

When you are a beginner you don't get upset if you miss. You understand you aren't very good and will miss a lot. If you played your first game of 3 cushion you wouldn't get upset if you missed. If you played banks at Derby and didn't normally play banks you wouldn't really get upset about losing or missing. In each case you'd be like "Meh, I'm just learning, not that great at this game", and it wouldn't really bother you. Maybe for a moment, just a momentary sting of a miss or a bad shot. But in general you'd be pretty chill.

We used to feel that way about pool. What changed? Somewhere along the line we decided we were a GOOD PLAYER. We had some big runs, ran a 4 rack run, won that local tournament. Suddenly we decided we are GOOD at the game. And we decided that a GOOD PLAYER should be able to run tables under pressure without error consistently. No one told us this was true. We just decided. Why? Because we are GOOD.

Imagine our outrage when that doesn't happen. What's going on?!? I'm a good player! I'm supposed to be winning! I should have made that! The score should've been 5-1! I should've won that set! Should should should should should.

YES! This might be the most profound thing I have ever read about pool. When and why did I all of a sudden become so elite that I can't hang an 8 ball?

You can just try your best and know that it won't always work and that's your pool game. No problem.

The best part is without all of that pressure you might just enjoy your sessions. And sometimes that relaxed outlook will help you play better and achieve great results. When it doesn't, no problem. When you play to have fun you win as soon as you put your cue together.

That's my outlook anyway. I just hit balls and enjoy watching them bounce around.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. It really does strike a chord, especially coming from a player at your level. It is such a simple, yet completely foreign attitude when you think about the importance placed on winning in traditional sports...pool also, when you consider matching up or playing challenge matches for the cash.

You know, Coach Saban (Roll Tide), always preaches his "process". He teaches his players to never worry about the scoreboard, to focus on doing their job each play, and then worry about the scoreboard when the time expires. If you do that, it's not a guaranteed win, but you will at least know you did everything in your power to be successful.

So instead of getting pissed, beating oneself up, and analyzing over and over why that 10 degree cut was missed, simply accept the fact that sometimes you will miss and sometimes those misses will add up to a loss. ( I think this is what you are saying). Even if we do everything right, misses are still going to happen.

Doesn't mean we stop practicing that shot. Doesn't mean we stop expecting to make that shot. The more we practice it, the better chance we give ourselves to be successful. BUT, misses will still happen, which will lead to losses, which we simply must accept.

Might need to start calling you Sensei Tin Man!

 

[tuffstuff07]

Great podcast and great posts on AZ again! Definitely makes you think about how serious I take the game and the approach to it.

I would like to know what the drill is you were talking about for using side spin in the podcast.

The last few years I feel like I've progressed a bit using fundamentals and stroke training and moving to more center axis and not using as much spin. So I feel the drill would be amazingly beneficial for me.

Also great insight into the fargo system and the range of your swing. Never thought about it this way

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[Tin Man]

YES! This might be the most profound thing I have ever read about pool. When and why did I all of a sudden become so elite that I can't hang an 8 ball?


Thanks for the thoughtful reply. It really does strike a chord, especially coming from a player at your level. It is such a simple, yet completely foreign attitude when you think about the importance placed on winning in traditional sports...pool also, when you consider matching up or playing challenge matches for the cash.

You know, Coach Saban (Roll Tide), always preaches his "process". He teaches his players to never worry about the scoreboard, to focus on doing their job each play, and then worry about the scoreboard when the time expires. If you do that, it's not a guaranteed win, but you will at least know you did everything in your power to be successful.

So instead of getting pissed, beating oneself up, and analyzing over and over why that 10 degree cut was missed, simply accept the fact that sometimes you will miss and sometimes those misses will add up to a loss. ( I think this is what you are saying). Even if we do everything right, misses are still going to happen.

Doesn't mean we stop practicing that shot. Doesn't mean we stop expecting to make that shot. The more we practice it, the better chance we give ourselves to be successful. BUT, misses will still happen, which will lead to losses, which we simply must accept.

Might need to start calling you Sensei Tin Man!

Thank you for the enthusiastic reply!

I agree with the process mindset. The biggest thing is to focus on what we can control, which in the end is almost nothing beyond our breathing and our attitude.

That said, we don't want to start becoming controlling about our fundamentals. Focusing on process doesn't mean allowing self one to micromanage our technique. If anything it is designed to distract self one with benign things to allow our body to perform the way it knows how.

Then none of it works anyway. What a game!

 

[Tin Man]

Great podcast and great posts on AZ again! Definitely makes you think about how serious I take the game and the approach to it.

I would like to know what the drill is you were talking about for using side spin in the podcast.

The last few years I feel like I've progressed a bit using fundamentals and stroke training and moving to more center axis and not using as much spin. So I feel the drill would be amazingly beneficial for me.

Also great insight into the fargo system and the range of your swing. Never thought about it this way

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

Thank you tuffstuff! Josh and I are doing a follow up this Saturday. I am very excited as it will dig deeper into the cyclical nature of the game. I have some thoughts I've been waiting for years to share so if you enjoyed the last one then please tune in for this one.

I diagrammed the shot in question below. It looks simple enough, but this is one I wish every pool player would master. So many players lose a lot of accuracy on positional shots when a rail is involved, but these shots are so, so important. So: Practice making this ball SOFTLY with a ROLLING cue ball and hitting each target by varying the spin.

Why is this so important? Check out the video Dr. Dave did where we looked at this shot in particular:

I talked about this in the last podcast when discussing best angles. Thinner shots with rolling cue balls will dominate flat angles with firm below center hits when it comes to moving the ball. This shot was just one example. But it's a good first step.

Happy spinning!

 

[Lawnboy77]

Thank you tuffstuff! Josh and I are doing a follow up this Saturday. I am very excited as it will dig deeper into the cyclical nature of the game. I have some thoughts I've been waiting for years to share so if you enjoyed the last one then please tune in for this one.

I diagrammed the shot in question below. It looks simple enough, but this is one I wish every pool player would master. So many players lose a lot of accuracy on positional shots when a rail is involved, but these shots are so, so important. So: Practice making this ball SOFTLY with a ROLLING cue ball and hitting each target by varying the spin.

Why is this so important? Check out the video Dr. Dave did where we looked at this shot in particular:

I talked about this in the last podcast when discussing best angles. Thinner shots with rolling cue balls will dominate flat angles with firm below center hits when it comes to moving the ball. This shot was just one example. But it's a good first step.

Happy spinning!

View attachment 632903

Really loving that rail target drill!

 

[tuffstuff07]

Thank you tuffstuff! Josh and I are doing a follow up this Saturday. I am very excited as it will dig deeper into the cyclical nature of the game. I have some thoughts I've been waiting for years to share so if you enjoyed the last one then please tune in for this one.

I diagrammed the shot in question below. It looks simple enough, but this is one I wish every pool player would master. So many players lose a lot of accuracy on positional shots when a rail is involved, but these shots are so, so important. So: Practice making this ball SOFTLY with a ROLLING cue ball and hitting each target by varying the spin.

Why is this so important? Check out the video Dr. Dave did where we looked at this shot in particular:

I talked about this in the last podcast when discussing best angles. Thinner shots with rolling cue balls will dominate flat angles with firm below center hits when it comes to moving the ball. This shot was just one example. But it's a good first step.

Happy spinning!

View attachment 632903

Thanks Demi! I will give this one a go. Looking forward to the next podcast!

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