Same players winning small weekly tournament

Billy_Bob

Billy_Bob

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I run a small weekly 8-ball tournament (in a small town) and it is getting to where the same players are winning every week.

There is a wide gap between the better players and the lesser skilled players. The better players can leave good position with the cue ball for their next shot and the lesser skilled players can not. So not much of a contest.

And I am one of the players who can get into the money each week. I tried "intentionally not playing well" (to spread the "cheer" a bit), then I was criticized by the other players for "dumping games". So I started playing good each tournament and now I'm hearing criticism about how "The same people are winning each week". I can't win for losing!

I would prefer that no players be restricted from playing in the tournament ever (best for me), however I think the lesser skilled players feel that they have no chance of winning ever, become discouraged, and stop showing up.

Has anyone else had this problem of the same players winning each week, then the number of people showing up to play goes down, down, down?

What have you done to get lesser skilled players to come back to the tournament *or* attract more better skilled players to the tournament?

We charge $3 and pay 4 spots. The thinking behind paying a 4th place is that different lesser skilled players will "get into the money" and this will encourage them to come back.
 
Billy_Bob said:
I run a small weekly 8-ball tournament (in a small town) and it is getting to where the same players are winning every week.

There is a wide gap between the better players and the lesser skilled players. The better players can leave good position with the cue ball for their next shot and the lesser skilled players can not. So not much of a contest.

And I am one of the players who can get into the money each week. I tried "intentionally not playing well" (to spread the "cheer" a bit), then I was criticized by the other players for "dumping games". So I started playing good each tournament and now I'm hearing criticism about how "The same people are winning each week". I can't win for losing!

I would prefer that no players be restricted from playing in the tournament ever (best for me), however I think the lesser skilled players feel that they have no chance of winning ever, become discouraged, and stop showing up.

Has anyone else had this problem of the same players winning each week, then the number of people showing up to play goes down, down, down?

What have you done to get lesser skilled players to come back to the tournament *or* attract more better skilled players to the tournament?

We charge $3 and pay 4 spots. The thinking behind paying a 4th place is that different lesser skilled players will "get into the money" and this will encourage them to come back.
Click to expand...

I have a couple possible solutions. First, you could handicap the tournament. This would help level the playing field for everyone, at least until everyone figures out how to manipulate the handicaps.

Another solution would be to charge a monthly membership fee of some sort, and use the funds to bring a coach in once or twice a week, to help members with their game. Membership might also entitle the member to receive discounted or free tournament entrances, to encourage those that play the tournaments get the training.

I'm sure you'll get other ideas, as well.
 
If the same person wins it every week, after winning it two or three weeks in a row ask them to sit out of the tournament for a week or two. Most people understand but you might get one or two who will complain about it. Otherwise (and i hate to say this) make it a handicap tournament. Worked for us once everybody thought they could win we went from having 8 player tournaments to having 25 player tournaments.
 
Chris said:
I have a couple possible solutions. First, you could handicap the tournament. This would help level the playing field for everyone, at least until everyone figures out how to manipulate the handicaps.
Click to expand...

Handicap System do work, and make things kind of level....:rolleyes:
 
Billy_Bob said:
I run a small weekly 8-ball tournament (in a small town) and it is getting to where the same players are winning every week.

There is a wide gap between the better players and the lesser skilled players. The better players can leave good position with the cue ball for their next shot and the lesser skilled players can not. So not much of a contest.

And I am one of the players who can get into the money each week. I tried "intentionally not playing well" (to spread the "cheer" a bit), then I was criticized by the other players for "dumping games". So I started playing good each tournament and now I'm hearing criticism about how "The same people are winning each week". I can't win for losing!

I would prefer that no players be restricted from playing in the tournament ever (best for me), however I think the lesser skilled players feel that they have no chance of winning ever, become discouraged, and stop showing up.

Has anyone else had this problem of the same players winning each week, then the number of people showing up to play goes down, down, down?

What have you done to get lesser skilled players to come back to the tournament *or* attract more better skilled players to the tournament?

We charge $3 and pay 4 spots. The thinking behind paying a 4th place is that different lesser skilled players will "get into the money" and this will encourage them to come back.
Click to expand...

The same happens here, in our weekly tournaments, after 19 events, only four players made first places (I am luckily one of those:) ).
The lesser skilled players are encouraged to play because a percentage of the prize money is saved for the final playoffs. The best eight of the ranking after 30 events will play for the title of 2005-2006 Champion in a tournament in which all of them will be paid.
Hope this helps :)
 
one or two game spot for the big winners

a local 8ball tourney here bars the master-level players, plus the dominant (AA) players have to give a game or two on the wire. Seems to work pretty well, unless the turnout is large and races are only to three. Then, AA give one game. That doesn't quite help the CD players enough.
 
Yeah, there was this handicapped tournament around Baltimore that worked out really well. They ran it in ten week sessions and paid winners each week as well as built up a points list for the entire session. The points list was a good idea because it kept people coming in every single week to get their points. Just a thought.
 
PoolSleuth said:
Handicap System do work, and make things kind of level....:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I'm sure they work well compared to no system at all. I do believe there are those that will be able to hide their speed well enough to get a better handicap than they really ought to have, so they are not perfect. But they do offer potential to help in the situation mentioned in this thread.

:)
 
Handicap tournament would work very well, or you could also do 2 seperate tournaments. You could run a "b" tournament one night and then an "open" on another night. That way all your lower level players would get a chance to get in the money some.
 
I agree, a handicapped tournament with games on the wire for the lessor players. It's the only way to do it. There are also tournaments here that don't allow "open players" in thier handicapped tournaments. It's up to the TD to determine if someone is perhaps way to good to play in a tournament. New people to a tournament should always be rated at the highest level till thier actual skill level can be determined.
 
Dumb question....

How do you most fairly run a handicap 8-ball tournament? I don't know a thing about this, so please explain the details.

ie. How would I assign a handicap to each player? The better players are in leagues or have played in tournaments and have known skill levels. The lesser skilled players have no known league or tournament skill levels, plus the thing with a new unknown player showing up.

And something which will probably wreck this whole handicap idea is that the tournament is held on a weeknight, many people have to get up early the next day for work (some 4 or 5 am)...

So the tournament *must* be a race to 1 so it will end by 10 PM.
 
dareads said:
Handicap tournament would work very well, or you could also do 2 seperate tournaments. You could run a "b" tournament one night and then an "open" on another night. That way all your lower level players would get a chance to get in the money some.
Click to expand...

That's just what I was thinking before I got down to your reply :)

If not two tournaments (and it may be that the level differential isn't so huge to warrant this), then definitely look into a handicap system.
 
The people who can't win always whine. That's the way it is. What's funny is that you could handicap it to the point where it's absurd and those same players probably still can't win and they'll end up whining some more. Tell them to practice if they want to win.

What you could do is make the winner sit out a week or if someone wins 2 weeks in a row make them sit out a week or two - something along those lines. Handicapping, in my opinion, only brings about a whole new thing that the whiners can whine about ("why is so-and-so rated this and I'm that?", etc.).
 
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As others have stated, start handicapping the field. If they have placed in the money, they have to start giving up weight. If you have 90% of the same people returning, place a system in place and stack rank them A, B, C, and D players.

A give up the break to a B player
B gives one on the wire to a D player
A gives up 2 on the wire to a D player

etc..... possibilities are endless

If they are new, automatically place them as a B to see where they might fall.
 
How about this. Two Tournaments. One is a "Open" and the other an "Invitational" The weekly winners would earn a spot in the Invitational
and have one of those every 1/4 or a Spring, Summer, Fall & Winter
event. That way the guys who win every week, would cycle out of the weekly tournament and have to wait til the Invitational. That would give the other guys a better chance to win a weekly, or folks that are new to get in on it and try to shoot there best to earn a spot. You could make the Invitational a larger pot and a nicer Trophy. Just my 2 cents.:)
 
How about a voluntary "don't play well" or don't play in the tournament thing when attendance starts to dwindle?

Point out to the better players that attendance is going down because the same people are winning each week (and the prize money too), and that it might encourage more people to play if we let the lesser skilled players get into the money every once and a while?

Of maybe have a threshold "don't play so well" number. Like if fewer than 12 people are showing up for the tournament, please "don't play so well" those nights. More than 12 - all out war!

Personally I don't care if I win or lose. I am happy just playing. However I think that a couple of the better players might be the "always play your best" types.

I have noticed some better players who sometimes "miss shots" in tournaments when playing beginners. Some beginners try so hard and it is quite discouraging to them when they never get a shot. And I have done this. I'll give them a few chances to make a few balls if I'm in a friendly mood.
 
I am agreeing with Hook on this... I would make an invitational tourney for the winners... but I would also form a "B-player" tourney on a different night. The winners of the "B" could graduate to the "A" tourney and a chance to play in the invitational. That would mean that you will have two nights of pool tourney, which should make the bar happy....

Other than that, it is too tough to handicap a race to 1 double elim. tourney.
 
I think it's a conflict of interest and will always raise questions/doubt if you compete in the tournament you are running. Even though it's done for a good reason i.e. to get more players and sweeten the pot, it still leaves a sour taste in some people's mouths.
 
The lesser skilled players are bangers. They will not learn anything and will not listen to anyone's advice. *Ever!*

I showed one how to draw a ball. Then I said he needed to practice daily. Or every game he played for fun, shoot every shot with draw. So saw this guy a month later, same problem not being able to draw. Said he did not have time to practice any. Hopeless! :confused:
 
Billy_Bob said:
How about a voluntary "don't play well" or don't play in the tournament thing when attendance starts to dwindle?

Point out to the better players that attendance is going down because the same people are winning each week (and the prize money too), and that it might encourage more people to play if we let the lesser skilled players get into the money every once and a while?

Of maybe have a threshold "don't play so well" number. Like if fewer than 12 people are showing up for the tournament, please "don't play so well" those nights. More than 12 - all out war!

Personally I don't care if I win or lose. I am happy just playing. However I think that a couple of the better players might be the "always play your best" types.

I have noticed some better players who sometimes "miss shots" in tournaments when playing beginners. Some beginners try so hard and it is quite discouraging to them when they never get a shot. And I have done this. I'll give them a few chances to make a few balls if I'm in a friendly mood.
Click to expand...

I personally don't like the playing down, or dumping idea. If I was one of those beginners and I one because somebody dumped I wouldn't feel that good about winning. There's nothing sweeter than winning on your own merit. Since you're only having a race to 1 then I suggest that you might want to go to some sort of match up ladder type of tournament where everybody puts thier name down on a list and pays some sort of weekly fee, then you have a draw for opponents and they make arrangements to play sometime during that week. That way, they can play thier race and the A players would be able to give up games on the wire. Check at your local golf course they often hold matchplay tournaments of this nature. This way, nobody is getting home late, it ensures a constant attendance and generates excitement over the span of a time as the weeks go by and the prize pot gets bigger. You could have a point system and have monthly prizes for high point leaders and other things like EROs, 8 on the breaks that kind of stuff.
 
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