Scratched on the 8 ball to lose

[berlowmj]

I had a great run against a far superior player who had broken the balls. I made a difficult cut to successfully pocket the 8 in the corner, but scratched in the side pocket on the same rail to lose.

I can usually stop the CB when it is in a straight line trajectory with the object ball, but my stop English was futile in this instance.

What could I have done to pocket the 8 & avoid the scratch?

 

[TannerPruess]

More left or right english depending on the set up. Diagram it for us.

 

[berlowmj]

cp sp

ob


cb

 

[berlowmj]

cp sp

ob


cb[/QUOTE]

 

[berlowmj]

diagram

cp sp

ob


cb[/QUOTE]

 

[berlowmj]

My diagram merged & duplicated when I hist "submit." It is meaningless.

 

[ioCross]

on some shots its just impossible not to scratch. if the 8ball was even a hair past the side pocket you will scratch. you just have to gauge it better. if he had a lot of balls left on the table you could've played a safe instead of taking a risky shot.

 

[berlowmj]

clarification?

More left or right english depending on the set up. Diagram it for us.

Assuming the CB has an equator like the Earth, where would I apply the English. I am assuming left English ,because I needed to restrain the CB from going right toward the side pocket. The contact point for the CB was on the right side of the OB.

I'm sorry that my efforts to diagram failed, but I appreciate your input.

 

[berlowmj]

strategy

on some shots its just impossible not to scratch. if the 8ball was even a hair past the side pocket you will scratch. you just have to gauge it better. if he had a lot of balls left on the table you could've played a safe instead of taking a risky shot.

He was a superior player with 2 easy balls to go, but I might have become to hungry for the kill & ignorant to consider my defensive options.
Thank you.

 

[Rasta]

Cheating the pocket, or using a bit of english, draw or follow would have changed the CB trajectory enough to miss the side, if I am understanding correctly.

Good Rolls,
Rasta

 

[Klopek]

Look into the 30 & 90 degree rules. You'ill scratch a lot less because you'll have a clear understanding of how the CB will depart from the OB using various spin combinations.

 

[randyg]

Look into the 30 & 90 degree rules. You'ill scratch a lot less because you'll have a clear understanding of how the CB will depart from the OB using various spin combinations.

Sorry, I thought the cueball always left the objectball at 90 degrees?...randyg

 

[seiyaryu55]

The cue ball will go off 30 degrees if the cue ball was rolling foward while making contact with the object ball. 90 degrees is for when the cue ball is sliding (but not rolling) when it makes contact with the OB.

 

[VIProfessor]

Sorry, I thought the cueball always left the objectball at 90 degrees?...randyg

So correct! I should also add, since I saw some posts advocating that the cue ball path would have been changed with left or right english, that english does NOT change the path of the cue ball untill it hits a rail unless it is part of a masse shot. The path of the cue ball, until it hits a rail, is determined by the contact point, the point on the vertical axis where the cue ball was struck, the quality of the hit, and the speed.

 

[Klopek]

The cue ball will go off 30 degrees if the cue ball was rolling foward while making contact with the object ball. 90 degrees is for when the cue ball is sliding (but not rolling) when it makes contact with the OB.

Yes, thank-you, didn't think I really needed to explain it.

I have no idea what kind of shot OP was describing, or what type of spin he should've used. Regardless, knowing the 30 and 90 degree rules will help avoid scratches.

http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/NV3-10.htm
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/NV3-7.htm

 

[PoolBum]

Sorry, I thought the cueball always left the objectball at 90 degrees?...randyg

This is correct--right or left English does not change the direction the cueball takes off the object ball, which is always initally along the tangent line (approximately 90 degrees). English is used primarily to change the direction the cueball takes off the cushion. Keep in mind, however, that draw or follow on the cueball can make it diverge from its initial path along the tangent line.

 

[VIProfessor]

This is correct--right or left English does not change the direction the cueball takes off the object ball, which is always initally along the tangent line (approximately 90 degrees). English is used primarily to change the direction the cueball takes off the cushion. Keep in mind, however, that draw or follow on the cueball can make it diverge from its initial path along the tangent line.

Hey PoolBum,

Merry Xmas, man! Hope you're having a good one. (Not like I've ever met you in real life or anything )

VIProfessor

 

[Klopek]

This is correct--right or left English does not change the direction the cueball takes off the object ball, which is always initally along the tangent line (approximately 90 degrees). English is used primarily to change the direction the cueball takes off the cushion. Keep in mind, however, that draw or follow on the cueball can make it diverge from its initial path along the tangent line.

Poolbum and VIPRofessor.

Randyg's statement was incorrect. The cueball only departs from the object ball at 90 degrees if it's sliding, without roll. If the cueball is rolling at contact, it will depart at 30 degrees from it's original path. Please note that I made no mention of side spin affecting the cueball path after contact and before a rail. This was added by another poster.

Please view these links
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/NV3-4.htm
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/NV3-9.htm
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/NV3-10.htm
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/NV3-7.htm

 

[VIProfessor]

Poolbum and VIPRofessor.

Randyg's statement was incorrect. The cueball only departs from the object ball at 90 degrees if it's sliding, without roll. If the cueball is rolling at contact, it will depart at 30 degrees from it's original path. Please note that I made no mention of side spin affecting the cueball path after contact and before a rail. This was added by another poster.

Please view these links
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/NV3-10.htm
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/NV3-7.htm

Sorry Klopek, but IMHO, even this is incorrect. After contact with the object ball, the cueball's initial path will still be on the 90 degree tangent line. The cue ball's path will, sooner or later, depending on how hard the ball is hit, bend forward or backward from that tangent line depending on whether the ball has follow or draw on it. That 90 degree tangent line is a matter of simple immutable physics.

On a medium stroked half ball hit, with follow, the cue ball's final path will be around 34 degrees, but other than that, the eventual path of a rolling cue ball is not an absolute, but depends on the angle and the speed.

 

[Klopek]

Sorry Klopek, but IMHO, even this is incorrect. After contact with the object ball, the cueball's initial path will still be on the 90 degree tangent line. The cue ball's path will, sooner or later, depending on how hard the ball is hit, bend forward or backward from that tangent line depending on whether the ball has follow or draw on it. That 90 degree tangent line is a matter of simple immutable physics.

On a medium stroked half ball hit, with follow, the cue ball's final path will be around 34 degrees, but other than that, the eventual path of a rolling cue ball is not an absolute, but depends on the angle and the speed.

Okay, but I've been predicting where my cueball will go within millimeters using these rules for a long time. I can tell you, the results are immediate and occur no matter how hard the cueball is struck. You're entitled to your opinion. Have a great Christmas day.

EDIT: It's of significant noteworthiness that the person who produced those video clips I posted is a Physics Professor. Perhaps you should write him and tell him he's wrong.