Setting Up the White: Spin vs Strength

[Sputnik]

There are many ways to make the white ball travel after impact with the object ball. Given a situation where the OB is near the rail and the white (at an angle) will have to go back to the area where it is being shot from...

Which is better:

1] lower the cue tip (like a draw without english) to make the return angle of the white against the rail wider or

2] Use inside english

This question pertains to the best way to calculate the DISTANCE in which you want the white to travel. What are the pros and cons?

 

[Sputnik]

Hello Larry. The first part of my post was just to illustrate a situation that happens in every game. Angled shot, impact, white against the rail on the return to the direction where the chot was made from.

The question is, what gives a more accurate ESTIMATION as to the distance in which the white will travel back - a less forceful spin that will help the cue ball travel longer or the a more forceful draw stroke without english?

Sorry if I am not clear.

 

[SuperDave]

If the OB is within an inch of the rail, I always english the CB towards the rail - as much to spin the OB towards the pocket as anything else. The farther the OB is from the rail, the less I need to do so. IMO english isn't a requirement to bring the CB back to you under the circumstances noted, at least no more than half a tip. The farther the OB is from the rail, the less likely english is to help you accomplish what you want anyways.

The distance you want the CB to move after contact is, IMO, always about speed control and nothing else. Especially with a draw shot. Never english anything you can accomplish with speed control.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[efirkey]

If you are traveling up the table and back again to where the object ball started from, then I think english is easier. However, if you want to stay of the rail nearest to the object ball then I like draw. It really depends on the situation. The object ball or cueball a few inches different could change how I play the shot. Experience is the answer... what was successful before? What shot are you confident in?

 

[Rickw]

It sounds to me that you're shot is a cut shot with the ob just off the rail. Your cb is where? Are you sitting in the middle of the table? How steep is the angle between the cb and the ob or the angle of the shot? If your angle is steep, you might have to go to a second rail to get back to where you started. If your angle is not steep, you will probably need to shoot with outside draw. Table speed would probably have a lot to do with it too.

 

[Micktmason]

depending exactly on the situation, english makes the shot easier, that's why you use it in the first place? to get the cue ball where you want the easiest/shortest/best angle way. hard to do that without english, how often is the natural angle the exact angle you want to leave yourself a high percentage shot next?maybe I use too much english, but I use it almost every shot, except very long shots or game winners, where there is no next shot to contemplate

 

[locki]

basically, you hit the ball harder because you want the cb to reach the ob with the spin still in the cb...even if you apply extreme english on the cb, but if you hit it just enough for it to reach the ob, there might not be enough spin or none at all when it impacts the ob, and bounces onto the rail...

 

[Billy Jungle]

just line up the shot perfectly straight dead center(no english,follow,or draw) think exactly where you want the white to end up.......empty your conscious mind......then stroke with the confidence that your brain & arm can execute....that's why we practice ....so we can execute with unconscious confidence.

 

[Sputnik]

Okay folks, I had two handicaps in posting this thread. First is my not being clear. I sometimes think in Filipino then translate to English. Second is that somehow, I now have those link icons in my browser so I can already upload images. Sorry about that.

Anyways, let me rephrase. Objective is for the CB to end up at point C. Which shot is better for cue ball control, one with spin and less draw (A) or one without spin but with a draw effect (B)?

Of course, if the object ball is considered, it is better to use spin because the spin transfer will help it enter the pocket with an under-cut error.

But for Cue Ball control, which is the preferred shot (granting table used is of international tournament standards)?

 

[Rickw]

Draw and no spin. You'll develop more control that way in the long run. With spin and draw, you have two things to control.

 

[Rickw]

If you watch the pros play, they take as many variables out of the game as is possible; their game is very very simple.

 

[Sputnik]

Good point, Rickw. In other words, with regards to the cue ball path, use english only to make the cue ball travel farther as the spin makes it roll faster. I agree, simple is the best.

This is a problem with many Filipino Efren wannabes. Efren can either make the object ball drip into the pocket while the cue ball spins far onto the next setup position; or he can slam the object ball into the pocket while the white crawls to the set up. Efren uses a lot of english, and some players imitate and hardly shoots without english. I plead guilty!

There are different reasons for english for the object ball and for the cue ball after the impact. And for both, depending on how the stroke is released. But Efren's stroke release is what makes him Efren "Bata" Reyes, while copycats get into trouble!!!

 

[Rickw]

You got it! Efren is a feel player. That cue is part of his arm when he's playing. Not many people can do that. If you can't, keep it simple. A lot of extremely good players keep it simple, but have the goods when they have to put that extra something on it. After you get that simple game strategy down tight, you might start getting some of the feel game Efren has. Who knows?

 

[Sputnik]

Man rick, you nailed that one. Yes sir, pool is a feel game, you must play it by feel. People who try to play this game mechanically with methods and systems, are losers, at best middle of the packers, the feel guy owns these people. In Billiards study Sang Lee, the greatest feel player I ever saw in any game.

Likewise agree. Nothing is more pathetic than someone who will chicken out on a "feel" shot at the expense of a possible run-out.

Two problems with playing by feel though. One is the down side of estimation as against accurate aiming with mechanical shooting. Second is losing muscle memory that comes along with a short lay-off.

The beauty in the game is that every shot is different (depending on equipment, table layout, pressure, etc.); every game is different; and every opponent is different. But you can always take out that flavor by shooting mechanically.